please agree with my definition of black metal so I dont lose e-rep

[humndislocation]

Originally Posted by Kevxx

black metal
death metal
metal

all the same.


nice new word to shiny it up some, same genre

No, no it isn't.

[njw]

yes, it is.

[Wee_rick]

to be honest, the whole black/death thing bemuses me too, just what is the difference?

[njw]

*sits back. feet up*

[humndislocation]

Originally Posted by Clogs

yes, it is.

Jazz and blues are exactly the same thing

[humndislocation]

Originally Posted by Wee_rick

to be honest, the whole black/death thing bemuses me too, just what is the difference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal has a good list of differences between death and black metal, I don't know enough about the technical side to tell you how they are different technically.

* Screeching, rasped vocals

* Fast guitars with tremolo picking

* Standard tuned guitars (In contrast to death metal which is typically dropped D and down-tuned.)

* Lyrics that take the form of Satanic, Pagan, or occult themes which blaspheme Christianity.

* Lyrics that celebrate the cold, darkness, forests, and other natural surroundings of northern European countries, reflecting modern black metal's origins in Scandinavia.

* Relatively thin guitar sound or relatively thick guitar sound—usually not in the middle.

* Limited production used intentionally as a statement against mainstream music and/or to reflect the mood of the music by creating a certain atmosphere. This 'underproduced' effect is often achieved by cutting out low and high frequencies, leaving just the mid frequency range. It is often said that this was due to a low budget, but this often wasn't the case. This production style is often considered an essential element of "true" black metal.

* Fast, repetitive, aggressive drums, often with blast beats. At other times, the drums can take a slower role usually accompanied by a very dry and empty tone—especially for the effect of the atmosphere of the music. On occasion, some groups such as Burzum and Xasthur will dispense with drums altogether in certain song segments.

* Occasional electronic keyboard use. The harpsichord, violin, organ, and choir settings are most common, which gives the music an orchestral feel or a cathedral-like setting. Some bands tend to use keyboards very frequently, whether it be as an instrument or even as the basis of their entire sound. They are generally placed under the symphonic black metal label.

* A distinct "rasped" vocal style, a very guttural rasp, which is reminiscent of a torture. This is basically standard in every black metal, though there are exceptions, such as Primordial, who are still classed black metal without the rasp vocal. Some bands, particularly symphonic black metal bands, incorporate clean vocals, usually of a male choir sound, though this is used for atmospheric purposes.

* Cold, dark, sad, melancholy, reflective, tragic, meditative, or gloomy atmosphere.

* Unconventional song structures that are devoid of verse and chorus segments, and contain extended and repetitive instrumental passages, with less use of vocals than other styles of metal.

* Less focus on dynamic rhythm than death metal. Very few black metal bands exhibit the rhythmic complexity inherent in death metal, and even if they do, they usually exhibit at least a few of the above-listed criteria if they are still generally classified as black metal.

Aside from the technical differences, suffice to say that to those of us that do listen to this kind of music regularly, and know something about it, there is a definite difference.

I think it's a bit daft for people that don't listen to the music to claim there's no difference, just as it's daft for anyone that doesn't really know much about a genre of music to claim that two genres are identical. If you listen to extreme metal, then the difference is very obvious.

The most obvious difference to me, is the different vocal style, and the use of tremelo picking. Black metal songs will often have keyboard parts going through a little trip through the daisies, which isn't something you'll see in death metal. Black metal also has a different "feel" to it, which I find hard to describe.

Death metal tends to have the whole cookie monster vocals thing going on, whereas black metal vocals are generally much more high pitched.

Death metal guitar parts are more riff based, than black metal. In a lot of black metal I've listened to, a lot of the guitar parts consist of building up various harmonies by trem picking chords.

The difference is more subtle than say, the difference between death metal and power metal, but the difference does exist.

[njw]

i understand that. I was just waiting to see the response of people who regularly make outragious statements of a similair nature regarding other genres at the opposite end of the spectrum. a la www.fourfa.com

[Gusstav]

Originally Posted by Kevxx

black metal
death metal
metal

all the same.


nice new word to shiny it up some, same genre

Completely wrong.

I suggest that you track down some tunes by some bands from the black and death metal genres and then come back when you realise that they are completely different.

For the black metal angle try Emperor, Darkthrone, Wolves in the throne room, Blut aus Nord, Absu and Weakling.

Death metal try Death, Pestilence, Cryptopsy, Decapitated, Malevolent Creation, Nile and Aborted.

I think, even to the untrained ear, that you will find that these bands dont sound the same.

[Kevxx]

Originally Posted by Gusstav

Completely wrong.

I suggest that you track down some tunes by some bands from the black and death metal genres and then come back when you realise that they are completely different.

For the black metal angle try Emperor, Darkthrone, Wolves in the throne room, Blut aus Nord, Absu and Weakling.

Death metal try Death, Pestilence, Cryptopsy, Decapitated, Malevolent Creation, Nile and Aborted.

I think, even to the untrained ear, that you will find that these bands dont sound the same.

Yes so you've said the difference between death metal and black metal

but over all its still all metal?

people argueing between death metal and black metal is stupid, overall it's a genre of metal

[humndislocation]

No one said that death and black metal aren't metal, just that there is a difference between them.

Similarly, a dog is an animal, a cat is an animal, but a dog isn't a cat.

[Hometown Zero]

no songs and no band but a myspace page, band email and band logo whilst the band consists of..uhm..2 vocalists?! its a bit hard to take seriosuly when its obviously more about image and publicity than music.

[njw]

hit the nail on't head it seems!