Sensitive Subject

Red_Baron · 22nd January 2003, 12:58 PM

Here's a touchy subject!

Should the wife of Reg Crew ( think that's his name), who went to Switzerland to commit suicide because he was dying from motor neurons disease, be charged with aiding him in his suicide?

Should he have been allowed to commit suicide in this or any country?

discuss

kj · 22nd January 2003, 01:21 PM

if a person is in the right mental state to decide such a thing then yes, but if the person isnt mentally stable then i dont think they should be allowed to commit suicide just like that. If you know what i am trying to say.
People commit suicide every day, but assisted suicide is obviously more complicated.

Meat · 22nd January 2003, 03:59 PM

It is a touchy subject in the sense that a number of people can be devastatingly affected by the act of suicide. Death of someone you care about is hard enough, but when the person wished it to happen, it makes one question all sorts of things, not least why they would hate the world so much as to be rid of it.
However, with the Reg Crew situation the motive for suicide is more apparent, that is, the painful and terminal illness from which he was suffering. In this case, the reason for wishing suicide is clear, but it is not clear whether this weighs up against the grief caused by death. Basically, I'm trying to explain why suicide is prohibited from a utilitarian point of view.
Another point of view, more Kant-like, is that any form of murder is entirely wrong, especially self-inflicted. That is, moral rules are described that if everyone disobeyed it, society wouldn't work.
I'm not sure that I buy either of these approaches. Life wasn't chosen, so surely some choice in continuing it or not is deserved. With assisted suicide, it is sometimes easier to think that the assisstant is only facilitating the choice of a free person. Like KJ said though, if the victim is unable to make a sound choice freely, because of illness or mental deficiency, then it doesn't seem right to act on that decision and end the victim's life. It is impossible to tell if the same decision would be made by the victim in entirely rational circumstances.
What I'm taking a long time to get to is that there's no black and white answer to the questions of suicide (assissted or not). Even examining cases very specifically, there are a multitude of arguments and issues to consider. In the end, I really don't know. I just hope it's not something that I'm going to have to encounter and decide.

Jarwerd · 23rd January 2003, 03:40 PM

I did an essay a few months ago in philosophy on this subject actually. I looked at the utilitarian and kantian approach (Kant is a twat though).

pedro · 23rd January 2003, 05:46 PM

jarwerd u will be the next socrates i know it!!

Meat · 23rd January 2003, 06:57 PM

Kant is not a twat! Hume is a twat!

Ally G · 23rd January 2003, 09:37 PM

Hume is not twat. Kant is a twat.

Ally G · 23rd January 2003, 09:38 PM

this is the height of philisophical disscusion.

Meat · 24th January 2003, 08:06 AM

I know. Man, it's like being in ancient Greece!

owenboskoala · 25th January 2003, 04:09 PM

erm...........i like boobies

Meat · 25th January 2003, 06:53 PM

Yeah, me too

gav · 26th January 2003, 07:13 AM

i'd imagine that in the case mike referred to that they guys wife is more than prepared for her husbands death. had he not been terminally ill for a very long time? surely his death was enivitable, i know you can never be fully prepared for something like this happening, but when you are the person suffering, i'm sure all you want is support to end it.

i think the only truely bad part is that someone is making a living out of it.

BigBad · 29th January 2003, 02:00 AM

If you have a pet dog that is ill with a debilitating and painfull disease that there is no cure nor efective treatment for, do you let it suffer..? or do you do the only proper thing that anyone with an ounce of compassion would do, have it humanly put down...
Why should things be any different with a human animal..?
If I knew that I was going to end up unable to do anything for myself, in constant pain, possibly unable to comunicate my needs to the people round me, I would far rather be dead,dead,dead..!!!

G...

gav · 29th January 2003, 03:21 PM

yeah but women can be sentimental and like to preserve things, hence why they're good at making Jam etc...

BigBad · 29th January 2003, 07:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gav_revolt:
yeah but women can be sentimental and like to preserve things, hence why they're good at making Jam etc...<hr /></blockquote>Thats a fucking good point, I shall go and mention this to the wife srraight away...

G...

22nd January 2003, 12:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
Red_Baron Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dundee/Alyth hybrid Posts: 1,491 Band: 15 Minutes	Sensitive Subject Here's a touchy subject! Should the wife of Reg Crew ( think that's his name), who went to Switzerland to commit suicide because he was dying from motor neurons disease, be charged with aiding him in his suicide? Should he have been allowed to commit suicide in this or any country? discuss

22nd January 2003, 01:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,938 Band: A band of merry men	if a person is in the right mental state to decide such a thing then yes, but if the person isnt mentally stable then i dont think they should be allowed to commit suicide just like that. If you know what i am trying to say. People commit suicide every day, but assisted suicide is obviously more complicated. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

29th January 2003, 07:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
BigBad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 417	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gav_revolt: <strong>yeah but women can be sentimental and like to preserve things, hence why they're good at making Jam etc...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats a fucking good point, I shall go and mention this to the wife srraight away... G...

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22nd January 2003, 03:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
Meat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupar (kinda) Posts: 37	It is a touchy subject in the sense that a number of people can be devastatingly affected by the act of suicide. Death of someone you care about is hard enough, but when the person wished it to happen, it makes one question all sorts of things, not least why they would hate the world so much as to be rid of it. However, with the Reg Crew situation the motive for suicide is more apparent, that is, the painful and terminal illness from which he was suffering. In this case, the reason for wishing suicide is clear, but it is not clear whether this weighs up against the grief caused by death. Basically, I'm trying to explain why suicide is prohibited from a utilitarian point of view. Another point of view, more Kant-like, is that any form of murder is entirely wrong, especially self-inflicted. That is, moral rules are described that if everyone disobeyed it, society wouldn't work. I'm not sure that I buy either of these approaches. Life wasn't chosen, so surely some choice in continuing it or not is deserved. With assisted suicide, it is sometimes easier to think that the assisstant is only facilitating the choice of a free person. Like KJ said though, if the victim is unable to make a sound choice freely, because of illness or mental deficiency, then it doesn't seem right to act on that decision and end the victim's life. It is impossible to tell if the same decision would be made by the victim in entirely rational circumstances. What I'm taking a long time to get to is that there's no black and white answer to the questions of suicide (assissted or not). Even examining cases very specifically, there are a multitude of arguments and issues to consider. In the end, I really don't know. I just hope it's not something that I'm going to have to encounter and decide.

23rd January 2003, 03:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jarwerd Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: dundee Posts: 100	I did an essay a few months ago in philosophy on this subject actually. I looked at the utilitarian and kantian approach (Kant is a twat though).

23rd January 2003, 05:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
pedro Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bonnie Dundee Posts: 430	jarwerd u will be the next socrates i know it!!

23rd January 2003, 06:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Meat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupar (kinda) Posts: 37	Kant is not a twat! Hume is a twat!

23rd January 2003, 09:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ally G Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,506	Hume is not twat. Kant is a twat.

23rd January 2003, 09:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ally G Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,506	this is the height of philisophical disscusion.

24th January 2003, 08:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Meat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupar (kinda) Posts: 37	I know. Man, it's like being in ancient Greece!

25th January 2003, 04:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
owenboskoala Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 1,827 Band: Archives, Kaput.	erm...........i like boobies

25th January 2003, 06:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
Meat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cupar (kinda) Posts: 37	Yeah, me too

26th January 2003, 07:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
gav Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 7,593 Band: Brickshithouse	i'd imagine that in the case mike referred to that they guys wife is more than prepared for her husbands death. had he not been terminally ill for a very long time? surely his death was enivitable, i know you can never be fully prepared for something like this happening, but when you are the person suffering, i'm sure all you want is support to end it. i think the only truely bad part is that someone is making a living out of it.

29th January 2003, 02:00 AM	#13 (permalink)
BigBad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 417	If you have a pet dog that is ill with a debilitating and painfull disease that there is no cure nor efective treatment for, do you let it suffer..? or do you do the only proper thing that anyone with an ounce of compassion would do, have it humanly put down... Why should things be any different with a human animal..? If I knew that I was going to end up unable to do anything for myself, in constant pain, possibly unable to comunicate my needs to the people round me, I would far rather be dead,dead,dead..!!! G...

29th January 2003, 03:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
gav Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 7,593 Band: Brickshithouse	yeah but women can be sentimental and like to preserve things, hence why they're good at making Jam etc...