public support for ID cards

[graham enzk]

Tuesday 11 November 2003 08:18am

'Public support' for identity cards

A majority of members of the public support a new national identity card, Home Office ministers have claimed.

The Government said research carried out by them showed there was a "groundswell of support" for the scheme, despite concerns from civil rights groups that it will invade privacy.

Focus groups, market research and responses to a lengthy consultation process - all to be published later today - showed the public backed the plans, Home Office minister Beverley Hughes claimed.

Home Secretary David Blunkett was also due to reveal to MPs a "route map" for introducing the controversial cards, which electronically store the holder's fingerprints, photograph and an image of their eye.

"I have no doubt from our consultation that members of the public do want this scheme and they will take it up," said Ms Hughes.

Asked whether she recognised some people's concerns about privacy, the minister said: "This does raise some important principles and some people will feel strongly about it.

"We are publishing a detailed consultation that has taken place over many months.

"You will see from those figures that a majority of members of the public are in favour. There is a groundswell of support from the general public.

"That is not to say that during the process of implementation there will not be significant debate, and I think it's quite right that should take place."

Last week Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Mark Oaten said there were "major flaws" in the Home Office's consultation exercise and claimed 5,000 unfavourable responses had been excluded. He said the Home Office claimed they received only 2,000 responses to the consultation. In fact there were more than 7,000 but the officials "decided to ignore" 5,000 submissions made through an anti-ID card website, he said.








typical.

[My First Kev]

fuck this identity cards malarky, it's just another way to check up on people, i can't believe some people are stupid enough to support a system which takes away even more personal freedom from the little we already have.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by smallbob

Tuesday 11 November 2003 08:18am
A majority of members of the public support a new national identity card, Home Office ministers have claimed.

Last week Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Mark Oaten said there were "major flaws" in the Home Office's consultation exercise and claimed 5,000 unfavourable responses had been excluded. He said the Home Office claimed they received only 2,000 responses to the consultation. In fact there were more than 7,000 but the officials "decided to ignore" 5,000 submissions made through an anti-ID card website, he said.

this dirty fecking library PC has just lost my reply, basically taking the 7000 in 55million thats about 0.01% of the population responded in favour never mind the fact only 2000 of those were counted in this survey.

gave reasons why I oppose them which ive posted here before the lies about it are:
1. itll stop fraud - you can forge passports and credit cards, these will be possible to forge too.
2. its to stop illegal work etc - the people who employ black market labour dont put it through the books anyway, how will this stop it?
3. NHS fraud - allegedly "illegal"(impossible to be an illegal) asylum seekers cost the NHS 1billion per year, so why is there no NHS number on the proposed cards?
4. Biometric data - is NOT foolproof, can be copied and forged just like any other.
5. Convergence of data - so if I go into a shop im gonna give some guy behind the till a card to swipe that has my criminal record/medical history/address etc on it, dont think so pal.
5. cost - they will raise 2billion pounds by charging everyone 40quid, well if it is really gonna work then it wills ave 1billion per year from the NHS so will pay for itself in 2 years, that is if the claims that asylum seekers cost so much and that this will be foolproof are true anyway, and if they are, why charge for them to cover cost?
6. its voluntary, you wont need one, that is if you would be happy living in a cave growing your own food with no electricity as a hermit, as you will need it for a job and to get medical treatment etc.

They *will* bring them in, no matter how much you whinge to those in power they arent gonna listen, the only way to beta it is refusal to carry it, use it or apply, mass burning/destruction if they force them on us and by swampin the system with bogus claims.

[SuperMike!]

I have to admit that if it was done properly this could be a good thing.

It does all depend however on cost, what data is contained/collected and what it is used for. I've not read up that much about what is being proposed but it does appear to err on the side of dodgy...

Then again, as my gran (roughly) said, if you've got nothing to hide what are you greetin about?

In principle, something that brought together your NI, driving licence, NHS stuff, and some form of basic ID would not be a bad thing. Correct me if i'm wrong but are ID cards not already used on the continent?

I don't support this scheme as it stands, but a clear, open scheme would be harder to oppose.

[1010011010]

The problem most people have Mike is that it is a fundamental imposition on our civil liberties. The downsides are numerous, but there don't appear to be any clear benefits.

My gran makes similar kinds of comments, but they miss the point.

As alan g makes clear in his post - it would be, and I suspect already is, easy to forge these cards, the cost is huge, and in order to function in the society you would pretty much need to have one.

I, as a matter of principle, will not buy one.

If I was forced to obtain one I think it might "accidentally" be destroyed.

You can find out any of your details such as NHS, Drivers License etc. relatively easily with a phone call if you needed that information. It would cost much less.

It appears logical to me that the more ID cards that are in circulation - the easier it is for fraud to happen.

If your card got stolen, someone could have access to almost everything about you. At the moment, it is not so easy, as few people carry around all their personal documents on them at one time.

People who talk about European's having ID cards forget that this is a hangover from wartime. We have been lucky that we have never found ourselves occupied.

As Barry Hugill said :

"This is a Government that cannot manage to pay tax credits, deliver passports or enforce child maintenance payments without catastrophic system failure. Does anyone seriously believe it could manage something as technologically complex as a national ID card?"

[Baz]

aye, what ever did happen to civil liberties? funny that

dont worry guys, you dont "have" to get an i.d. card, but then, you`ll not have a job, any healthcare etc. and you`ll also have to pay us £77 to get one.
they probably want you to swipe it in every girls bum b4 you shag her, just for their "records". sorry for being crude but they are taking the piss on this one. the more people that oppose this the better. i agree with all your concerns.
all it needs is someone to nick your card and thats it, your fucked, 100%

why do they wanna know EVERYTHING about us anyway. ever feel like your government dosent trust you. well, i dont trust them. and i will not be carrying about my life on a card. no thanks. it seems big brother just got bigger, and thinks he can push us over - has anything been officially set up yet to campaign against this?

this government is catastrophicaly failing on so many other levels, does it really want to add this to the list?

[Freto]

Sorry but im all for it, ive got nothing to hide so its fine by me, should be good for cutting down on crime and that and benefit cheats etc...

[Scott]

why dont we all just agree to tell blunkett weve done it?

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by Freto

Sorry but im all for it, ive got nothing to hide so its fine by me, should be good for cutting down on crime and that and benefit cheats etc...

and how will it do this? It can be copied so will do nothing to stop benefit fraud and it cant cut down crime as if I break into your house its not as if Ill need to show you my ID card before nicking yer telly and legging it.

[Becca Bomb]

Theres not any negative points to having one apart from an apparent "invasion of privacy" - what does that mean? Unless you have something to hide or are a fugitive, you should have no qualms in carrying a card to show your identity! I believe it will definately be positive, how can anyone expect a totally free spirited society when society is in this mess. We have to compromise at least.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by punkiconess

Unless you have something to hide or are a fugitive, you should have no qualms in carrying a card to show your identity! I believe it will definately be positive, how can anyone expect a totally free spirited society when society is in this mess. We have to compromise at least.

this is something that is constantly bandied about but it is untrue. Those who have nothing to hide have the *most* to fear. If someone is breaking the law in such a way as to get the police down on them hard then they have prepared themselves for the outcome that they may go to jail (to quote fletcher in porridge, its an occupational hazard).

For a law abiding citizen being arrested and thrown in the nick, miscarriage of justice etc is the most unjust and scary concept you can have. To be completely removed form society at large as a mistake is a truly terrifying concept.

[Becca Bomb]

Originally Posted by Alan G

this is something that is constantly bandied about but it is untrue. Those who have nothing to hide have the *most* to fear. If someone is breaking the law in such a way as to get the police down on them hard then they have prepared themselves for the outcome that they may go to jail (to quote fletcher in porridge, its an occupational hazard).

For a law abiding citizen being arrested and thrown in the nick, miscarriage of justice etc is the most unjust and scary concept you can have. To be completely removed form society at large as a mistake is a truly terrifying concept.

but this has no relevance to carrying ID cards, as you can be arrested just as easily now, the police can find your details just as easy on a computer, only it would take longer to check that you have NO record rather than saving time if you had an innocent ID. You can;'t really bring up innocent people suffering from ID cards as ive experienced being set up in the past, had nothing to do with ID, in fact, an ID card wouldve probably helped me at the time. Its the criminals that will be more tangible. If you are innocent then you will carry it. You will therefore have nothing to worry about.