Is National Service the Answer?

Dj-Zero · 12th August 2005, 02:25 AM

This is from another site i'm a member of:

Quote:

I've,from the outset,been a fan of the 'Bad Lads Army' series.More than anything,I've been intrigued by how these so-called hard young men from the streets have slowly been transformed into disciplined young men,with a new outlook and attitude towards life,and society in general.

The very same young men,that have spent a percentage of their lives in and out of young offenders institutes and prisons,as a so-called deterrent to offending again.Sadly,it seems that these measures simply serve to exasperate their problems,than alleviate them.

So,my question is...who believes,as I do,that it may be a good idea to reintroduce national service?Now don't get me wrong here,I'm uninformed as to what the financial ramifications of such a measure would be.However,I do feel that maybe,just maybe,in the long run it would be beneficial to society as a whole.

At the present time,we have an alarming number of drunken,ill-disciplined,violent youngsters 'patrolling' our streets.The very same youngsters that it costs us a fortune to send to these correctional centres and prisons,that seem to do nothing but breed more of the same.

And so....maybe the reintroduction of national service could be the answer?

What do you think? My view is that this may not be all that bad an idea, though how about if National Service became a punishment, i mean those guys in bad lads army have completely reformed, so if it works on them it may work for others?

graham enzk · 12th August 2005, 09:10 AM

when working in pubs i found squaddies to be the rowdiest and biggest troublemakers ever, so i don't think national service would curb youth delinquency, it would just mean that for two years they would be serving in the army as opposed to hanging around outside shops.
the only way to curb the expansion of deliquency is some sort of cull and sterilisation project. unfortunately this'll never get the go ahead.

Dashingmajor · 12th August 2005, 11:58 AM

Doesn't France still have national service. They still have plenty gangs. I don't think in todays society it would work. It would be too difficult to set up and there would be too many moral and ethical questions involved. What if you could get out of it by saying you did not believe in the military, or were a pascifist, all the delinquents would just find an excuse not to be signed up.

E.

AlanG · 12th August 2005, 12:36 PM

if it were used as a "punishment/rehabilitaion" thing for people in gangs that excuse would not be valid though:
"you are going into National Service for a year for bottling someone"
"but im a pacifist"
"oh ok then, let me zip my head up the back again"

not that I think its a good idea.

If its brought in as a "punishment" for kids "patrolling the streets" it doesnt do anything to address why they were doing that in the first place, only gets a few who were and tries to stop them from doing so.

I wasnt in a "gang" when I was a teen but I was in a group that played football at a park bit most nights/weekends. It was bloody annoying though as the posts were taken down in summer and there was nowhere we could go indoors when weather was bad. When Ive spoken to kids who are hanging at shops at nights or whatever the same excuse is always given "theres nowhere to go". theres barely any community centres left, cinema etc is too expensive especially when min wage for your age if you have a job is 3bucks an hour etc etc.

if you want kids off the street the answer isnt pubishing those who misbehave but to provide better youth services and activities for them to go to.

humndislocation · 12th August 2005, 12:49 PM

I don't think this is a good idea.

If it wasn't just as a punishment, then people that don't cause any trouble would have to go through national service too. Why should they have to pay for the actions of neds?

If it was just as a punishment, then you're teaching these people how to kill, and there's no guarantee that you're actually making them into better people.

Dj-Zero · 12th August 2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humndislocation

If it was just as a punishment, then you're teaching these people how to kill, and there's no guarantee that you're actually making them into better people.

not necissarily, i guess, as opposed to actual army training i'm talking about the kind of thing they were doing in Bad Lads Army, no weapons training was taught and most of them changed their attitude to life and were, in fact, rehabilitaded.

Keerin · 13th August 2005, 07:22 PM

because it was on tv...

in real life if they were forced to join up they would love it so much that they would join the marines then they would be able to behave like thugs, but they would have an "excuse". in the real world, they would possibly be more disciplined after their training but that basically means that they would be idiots, but have a better chance of not being caught and they would have no problem getting up early/not sleeping for the night to go on the milk bottle run.

national service is not the answer. violence is.

Rebelius · 13th August 2005, 09:30 PM

what is the question?

Keerin · 13th August 2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelius

what is the question?

is national service the answer to crime (caused by "neds") on the streets? your powers of deduction are incredible sir.

Rebelius · 13th August 2005, 09:46 PM

the title is "Is National Service the Answer?"

if the question is 2+2, the answer is no

if the question is what starts with "N" and ends with "ational Service" the answer would be yes.

Keerin · 13th August 2005, 09:48 PM

"I've,from the outset,been a fan of the 'Bad Lads Army' series.More than anything,I've been intrigued by how these so-called hard young men from the streets have slowly been transformed into disciplined young men,with a new outlook and attitude towards life,and society in general.

The very same young men,that have spent a percentage of their lives in and out of young offenders institutes and prisons,as a so-called deterrent to offending again.Sadly,it seems that these measures simply serve to exasperate their problems,than alleviate them.

So,my question is...who believes,as I do,that it may be a good idea to reintroduce national service?Now don't get me wrong here,I'm uninformed as to what the financial ramifications of such a measure would be.However,I do feel that maybe,just maybe,in the long run it would be beneficial to society as a whole.

At the present time,we have an alarming number of drunken,ill-disciplined,violent youngsters 'patrolling' our streets.The very same youngsters that it costs us a fortune to send to these correctional centres and prisons,that seem to do nothing but breed more of the same.

And so....maybe the reintroduction of national service could be the answer?"

i deduced the question from that.

grigorip · 14th August 2005, 09:47 PM

National Service is not the answer.

The whole world surrounding people in the past is vastly differnt from the world today. You cannot say that one single thing would change the way things are today. Many of the reasons for problems in society these days are due to modern culture, this consists of soooo many things. I would like to see the culture of this country change in many ways and I think that this would help. Forcing people to participate in military training is such a stupid suggestion. It would cost a lot of money and I doubt it would help very much at all. There really is very little need for an army in this country anyway apart from perhaps a very small highly trained force. These people ought to be taught morals in different ways.

Perhaps if they cycled more.

12th August 2005, 12:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,659	if it were used as a "punishment/rehabilitaion" thing for people in gangs that excuse would not be valid though: "you are going into National Service for a year for bottling someone" "but im a pacifist" "oh ok then, let me zip my head up the back again" not that I think its a good idea. If its brought in as a "punishment" for kids "patrolling the streets" it doesnt do anything to address why they were doing that in the first place, only gets a few who were and tries to stop them from doing so. I wasnt in a "gang" when I was a teen but I was in a group that played football at a park bit most nights/weekends. It was bloody annoying though as the posts were taken down in summer and there was nowhere we could go indoors when weather was bad. When Ive spoken to kids who are hanging at shops at nights or whatever the same excuse is always given "theres nowhere to go". theres barely any community centres left, cinema etc is too expensive especially when min wage for your age if you have a job is 3bucks an hour etc etc. if you want kids off the street the answer isnt pubishing those who misbehave but to provide better youth services and activities for them to go to. __________________ Genna Design Jewellery Scoville Units Unite Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" - 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP - 23 Jul 04

13th August 2005, 07:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Keerin UGS Site Writer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: probably work Posts: 7,411 Band: Welcome Home, Explorer; Vulsellum; Altruist	because it was on tv... in real life if they were forced to join up they would love it so much that they would join the marines then they would be able to behave like thugs, but they would have an "excuse". in the real world, they would possibly be more disciplined after their training but that basically means that they would be idiots, but have a better chance of not being caught and they would have no problem getting up early/not sleeping for the night to go on the milk bottle run. national service is not the answer. violence is. __________________ Étre fort pour étre utile

13th August 2005, 09:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Keerin UGS Site Writer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: probably work Posts: 7,411 Band: Welcome Home, Explorer; Vulsellum; Altruist	"I've,from the outset,been a fan of the 'Bad Lads Army' series.More than anything,I've been intrigued by how these so-called hard young men from the streets have slowly been transformed into disciplined young men,with a new outlook and attitude towards life,and society in general. The very same young men,that have spent a percentage of their lives in and out of young offenders institutes and prisons,as a so-called deterrent to offending again.Sadly,it seems that these measures simply serve to exasperate their problems,than alleviate them. So,my question is...who believes,as I do,that it may be a good idea to reintroduce national service?Now don't get me wrong here,I'm uninformed as to what the financial ramifications of such a measure would be.However,I do feel that maybe,just maybe,in the long run it would be beneficial to society as a whole. At the present time,we have an alarming number of drunken,ill-disciplined,violent youngsters 'patrolling' our streets.The very same youngsters that it costs us a fortune to send to these correctional centres and prisons,that seem to do nothing but breed more of the same. And so....maybe the reintroduction of national service could be the answer?" i deduced the question from that. __________________ Étre fort pour étre utile

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12th August 2005, 09:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
graham enzk Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: back in the day Posts: 2,855 Band: condition21, ultramegaholocausticwhi rlwindzombiedeathsquad , utter fucking hate, distorted noise, tin pot hippies, spiteful	when working in pubs i found squaddies to be the rowdiest and biggest troublemakers ever, so i don't think national service would curb youth delinquency, it would just mean that for two years they would be serving in the army as opposed to hanging around outside shops. the only way to curb the expansion of deliquency is some sort of cull and sterilisation project. unfortunately this'll never get the go ahead.

12th August 2005, 11:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dashingmajor Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cupar Posts: 1,877 Band: cupar arts festival	Doesn't France still have national service. They still have plenty gangs. I don't think in todays society it would work. It would be too difficult to set up and there would be too many moral and ethical questions involved. What if you could get out of it by saying you did not believe in the military, or were a pascifist, all the delinquents would just find an excuse not to be signed up. E.

12th August 2005, 12:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
humndislocation Hardcore is serious guys Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dundee Posts: 6,383	I don't think this is a good idea. If it wasn't just as a punishment, then people that don't cause any trouble would have to go through national service too. Why should they have to pay for the actions of neds? If it was just as a punishment, then you're teaching these people how to kill, and there's no guarantee that you're actually making them into better people.

13th August 2005, 09:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,232	what is the question?

13th August 2005, 09:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,232	the title is "Is National Service the Answer?" if the question is 2+2, the answer is no if the question is what starts with "N" and ends with "ational Service" the answer would be yes.

14th August 2005, 09:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
grigorip kipper family Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: cuparfife,but,tis-notmyfavoriteplacetobe.hm Posts: 2,154	National Service is not the answer. The whole world surrounding people in the past is vastly differnt from the world today. You cannot say that one single thing would change the way things are today. Many of the reasons for problems in society these days are due to modern culture, this consists of soooo many things. I would like to see the culture of this country change in many ways and I think that this would help. Forcing people to participate in military training is such a stupid suggestion. It would cost a lot of money and I doubt it would help very much at all. There really is very little need for an army in this country anyway apart from perhaps a very small highly trained force. These people ought to be taught morals in different ways. Perhaps if they cycled more.