Fridays Protest

[AlanG]

i got there about 12ish, just as doug was coming back to let us know Morgan kids had been locked in school and stopped from coming down. Pretty soon some people arrived from St Andrews and Monefieth High. After a while someone mentioned McDonalds sponsoring an Arms Fair on the weekend of Sept 11 and a kid screamed "blockade mcdonalds". The protest moved up there with people educating the crowd and McDonalds place in the arms trade and their destruction of rainforests for third world beef farming. Loads of people aamzingly didnt know about this and then pledged not to use McDonalds. We moved backdown and tried to move along nethergate to meet the Muslims coming down from the Mosque. The police refused this and barricated us in. Eevntually they arrived and that put the total at about 400. We then managed to start a march along teh nethergate and sat down at corner of Perth Road/Ring Road for 20minutes. 1 man was arrested. We moved back to city square and the kids rushed barricade stopping us from getting in city square, the police shat themselves knowing that it was kids, then an adult went over and was arrested while kids were just forced back. We left pretty soon but apparantly Ernie Ross eventually came out to speak to us after we had been chanting all day and some kids egged him. top drawer.

[St.Magumba]

Aristotle would have been proud!

[Red_Baron]

Morgan Kids were locked in to prevent them mixing with St Josephs along the road.

School kids would have been better in school getting an education on what is happening!

And what's with the anti-police attitude by everyone. They're only doin their job and their presence there was for public safety.

I also find it so ironic that the majority of these 'protesters' had a smile on their face acting like it was a party where was all the concern?

I wonder how much these protests have cost the people of Dundee who pay the taxes or who have shops and busineses in the center, did anyone think about that?

By all means picket the MPs disrupt their day but why did it have to turn into an anti-everything bullshit runabout march?

Tony Blair is hardly going to listen to a bunch rampaging idiots most of whom have are getting some sense of enjoyment out of it. No wonder the term crocodile tears is being used.

The right to protest should always be upheld but if we allow protests to disrupt innocent parties then the impact is lost as is support.

Keep the kids in school and teach them what it's all about and let the adults ( most of who can behave themselves) take issue with the MPs

[kj]

i noticed how the SSP have been urging school children to attend protests in Dundee. I wonder what they have to say about the school child, who was playing truant, that was run over by a car in Dundee yesterday on her way to the protest.

[AlanG]

Originally posted by Red_Baron
School kids would have been better in school getting an education on what is happening!

if youd spoke to any of the kids on any of teh day youd know the ones who were there to actually protest and not just skip school already know whats goin on.

And what's with the anti-police attitude by everyone. They're only doin their job and their presence there was for public safety.

anti police attitude? There was a great atmosphere between the police and protestors. But when they refused to let us march they then barricaded us in and refused to let us leave. Which is when people got pissed off. Then when 2 morons got themselves arrested some people got pissed with the police. I just found it funny , the people had after all merited arrest.

I also find it so ironic that the majority of these 'protesters' had a smile on their face acting like it was a party where was all the concern?

why is this ironic, if everyone had been standing around tears streaming we would have been accused of being a bunch of "damn liberal cowards" etc as has already been constantly used in America. Why exactly are they not allowed to be smiling, I know I was happy that there was such a good turnout today and on Friday when many had work. I met lots fo fantastic people who I would never have otherwise known, which was why I was in a good mood. Ask anyone else why they were.

I wonder how much these protests have cost the people of Dundee who pay the taxes or who have shops and busineses in the center, did anyone think about that?

I guarantee you its a lot less than 1% of the cost of us going to war on each of these days. If you wanna whinge about taxpayers money being spent speak about this war.

By all means picket the MPs disrupt their day but why did it have to turn into an anti-everything bullshit runabout march?

as I said before its non violent civil disobediance. We have been told we should write petitions, lobby mps to have our voices heard. They ignored it, its to put more pressure on the MPs to let them see we wont lie down and will continue to act like that until they do listen.

Tony Blair is hardly going to listen to a bunch rampaging idiots most of whom have are getting some sense of enjoyment out of it. No wonder the term crocodile tears is being used.

I know, its a shame hes ignoring his own party.

The right to protest should always be upheld but if we allow protests to disrupt innocent parties then the impact is lost as is support.

ever heard of the civil rights movement? of South Africa, of India? Protests continued to disrupt innocent parties, the public of them and other countries supported them and then they won. You make it seem like only innocent parties are disrupted. This completely disrupted the labour party conference too

Keep the kids in school and teach them what it's all about and let the adults ( most of who can behave themselves) take issue with the MPs

yeah let them watch the BBC for example. Which on Thirsday in an hour mentioned one incident that killed British and American personnel hundreds of time and once said "30 Iraqis are believed to have been killed in the battle" and moved on never to mention again. Who said an entire division of 8000men had surrendered and then changed it to their leader then to a lower rank. Maybe let them read the dossier to read about the facts. or let them, hear both sides of the argument and let them make up their own mind.

KJ
i noticed how the SSP have been urging school children to attend protests in Dundee. I wonder what they have to say about the school child, who was playing truant, that was run over by a car in Dundee yesterday on her way to the protest.

Everyone I spoke to was upset about it, and of course was distraught. I didnt see courier yesterday to find out full details, but was she crossing the road or was she walking along on road or what? what has to be remembered is that this is an accident that could have been avoided. Either by her crossing at a safe point or by driver going slower, whichever was cause of it. Whats most sad is this will be used against the protestors, as if they wanted it to happen

[kj]

why would anyone want it to happen? thats a weak argument. Do you support the SSP's actions by encouraging school children to play truant from school? There is a time and a place for protest, and during school hours isnt one of them. And yes, it is an incident that could have been avoided, had she stayed in school.

[Red_Baron]

"if youd spoke to any of the kids on any of teh day youd know the ones who were there to actually protest and not just skip school already know whats goin on."

Yes but there were far too many kids there who were just taking a day off school. I even cought a group of twats writing "NO WAR" on the side of my house and when asked what the hell they were doing they retorted with abuse.

I'm not against protests , I've been on a quite a few myself, and it was not a personal attack on you Alan. but surely you can see why it annoys people who are trying to lead a normal life when their day is disrupted by people who have no interest in Iraq and I;m sure you would agree there was a high number of people there who didn't give a damn and just wanted to be rebelious.

It's these people that cause damage to property, cause disruption and incite violence. And yes these protests will only cost a fraction of a war, but it's the local costs which mount up and will not be covered by west minster. And i resent being called a winge, as I don't feel certain issues in Dundee are any less viable than a protest against Iraq. A slightly hypocrytical view on your part i feel. but as I said I'm not out to go for personal attack.

Also while you may have been happy to see such a big turnout, a lot of these jubilent kids ( and some adults from what i could see) were jumping around like it was a party and to them it was, a novelty, a day off school, another fasion bandwagon to jump on.

There is also a thin line between non violent civil disturbance and violent anarchy. While you an a lot of well informed people were intending to have a peaceful day there were too many looking for trouble and finding it.

I also find it slightly cheeky (although it may be meant as sarcasm) to sugeest i haven't heard of the civil rights movement. But why does a the civil or human right of a protester come before the civil right of everyone else? it was set up so that everyone had a fair deal and should not be used as an excuse by people who want to disrupt the movements of others ( which is a breach of the peace violation) Why Block the bridge, why block the Nethergate ( which is the main route of emergency services traverling to and from Ninewells).

I hate it when protests end up getting bad publicity, it gives no force to any argument. And whether people agree with the protests isn't an issue, everyone has a right to protest ( esspecially about something as serious as this) but it should not disrupt the lives of people who can not directly affect the outcome.

Sureley Alan you can understand my point of view that to let kids out of school to rampage around Dundee is not right. Even if there were some there that had a real feeling to protest, there were many who didn't and it should have been handled differently. It wasn't the protest I am disagreeing with just certain aspects of it.

P.S. I do agree about the news coverage. It has been shit, not as bad as CNN's though which would have us beleive America is in charge of the world at the moment.

[AlanG]

Originally posted by Red_Baron
Yes but there were far too many kids there who were just taking a day off school. I even cought a group of twats writing "NO WAR" on the side of my house and when asked what the hell they were doing they retorted with abuse.

which is quite rightfully condemned, as I said I am interested in peaceful protest, not what has been an attack for no reason on you

I'm not against protests , I've been on a quite a few myself, and it was not a personal attack on you Alan. but surely you can see why it annoys people who are trying to lead a normal life when their day is disrupted by people who have no interest in Iraq

but that was exactly the point. Anyone who was having no interest in Iraq should wake up and realise what our government is doing. No citizen should be disinterested in the fact this country is in a state of war. id rather people were pro war than apathetic.

And yes these protests will only cost a fraction of a war, but it's the local costs which mount up and will not be covered by west minster. And i resent being called a winge, as I don't feel certain issues in Dundee are any less viable than a protest against Iraq.

I agree there are local issues that deserve such protest, as weve spoke about on the hot topic many times about But no local issue in Dundee is related to an illegal(in my and many others opinion) war, except perhaps our relationship to Nablus.

Also while you may have been happy to see such a big turnout, a lot of these jubilent kids ( and some adults from what i could see) were jumping around like it was a party and to them it was, a novelty, a day off school, another fasion bandwagon to jump on.

which I also condemned in another thread, cant remember if it was here though. There was an element who was theer for trouble and an element there because they could. because of their actions the ones there because they wanted to actually protest the war are ignored. Guess its not really newsworthy :s

There is also a thin line between non violent civil disturbance and violent anarchy. While you an a lot of well informed people were intending to have a peaceful day there were too many looking for trouble and finding it.

on Thursday there were around 30-40 out of 1000(police/tully estimate) causing trouble.

I also find it slightly cheeky (although it may be meant as sarcasm) to sugeest i haven't heard of the civil rights movement. But why does a the civil or human right of a protester come before the civil right of everyone else?

I mentioned them because these were only achieved because of mass non violent civil disobediance.

it was set up so that everyone had a fair deal and should not be used as an excuse by people who want to disrupt the movements of others ( which is a breach of the peace violation) Why Block the bridge, why block the Nethergate ( which is the main route of emergency services traverling to and from Ninewells).

It was done to show that although the Government are in control of the countrys wars we, the people voted them in and 'we' control the country, and will take steps to disrupt its infrastructure while they ignore our protests. I didnt see any emergencey service vehicles and am sure any would be diverted if they were going that route. I did see one police car come down adn protestors moved out the way to allow it through. If any others caem they would I have no doubt have been allowed through. please remember members of the FBU were also there, so its nto as if we completely ingored emergency services existance.

but it should not disrupt the lives of people who can not directly affect the outcome.

thats the crux of the anti war/pro peace movement. We CAN directly affect the outcome by doing actions like Friday and by mass protests like on Saturday. But as usual if the papers and news say its pathetic and wont achieve anything most people believe it and dont think they can do anything.

Sureley Alan you can understand my point of view that to let kids out of school to rampage around Dundee is not right. Even if there were some there that had a real feeling to protest, there were many who didn't and it should have been handled differently. It wasn't the protest I am disagreeing with just certain aspects of it.

I do understand your point of view and do think it should have been handled differently. What is ignored in papers is that the kiddies riot on Thursday happenned before the protest was organised. This was supposed to take place at 1pm and most of the kids were there all morning, leading to them getting frustrated and wound up.

P.S. I do agree about the news coverage. It has been shit, not as bad as CNN's though which would have us beleive America is in charge of the world at the moment.

but they are

[St.Magumba]

Our town centres are precarious and busy enough places without you little tykes running amok!

If these public displays of idiotic,petulant behaviour did not take place then the children would not see it as an excuse to dog school for the day. I mean really who expects a fourteen year old to have any strong feelings about world peace. Jesus Christ, the only thing i thought about when i was fourteen was wanking myself into a stupor!

The ' protests ' must stop! Surely these people must have somthing better to do than throw eggs at people? I saw Bianca Jagger being interviewed on TV the other day. Her fellow protesters didnt even have the decency to shut up when she was putting her point across. Rabble-rousers and pests one and all. There only purpose is to upset the lives of working people, attempt to bring everyday life to a standstill and humiliate public servants for their own amusement.

The cause they fight for is not peace but chaos!!!

[AlanG]

From BBC site, there was also a longer piece on Newsnight Scotland last night

Pupils defend anti-war protests

Scottish children who skipped school to demonstrate against the war in Iraq have denied that their protest was engineered by adults.
Hundreds took to the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow last week in a series of demonstrations against military conflict.

Their actions divided politicians and led to suggestions from some sections of the media that the children were being compelled to take part by irresponsible adults.

However, the youngsters themselves rejected these claims and said they had only played truant in order to participate in politics.

'Make voices heard'

One Edinburgh pupil said: "Some of the newspapers and the media are portraying that we have been organised by adults to do this, and it is not.

"We have organised it ourselves. It is something we wanted to do.

"We wanted to make our voices heard."

Thousands of children took part in protests in Edinburgh on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday.

Demonstrations were also held in Glasgow and other parts of Scotland, while thousands of pupils played truant to take to the streets of English cities.

The youngsters were led by some more seasoned campaigners during last week's demonstrations in Edinburgh.

However, Colin Fox of the Scottish Socialist Party denied that the youngsters had been manipulated or encouraged to break the law.

"This is entirely spontaneous. This is in the charge of the kids themselves," he said.

"We gave it some leadership and direction, but it is on their terms.

Further protests

"They want to keep moving and want to sit down when they like. They want to protest. That is a beautiful new angle to the civil disobedience protest tactic."

The pupils are planning further protests later this week in the Scottish capital.

One said: "We spent hours on Friday afternoon sitting down as a group and thinking what can we do to make our voices heard.


"The media haven't asked us about that and they haven't wanted to tell people about that. They have just jumped to conclusions."

The pupils' action was supported by Scottish Socialist Party Leader Tommy Sheridan, who told youngsters in Edinburgh that they should be "proud" of their actions.

However, Scottish Tory Leader David McLetchie said pupils "should not be encouraged to skive off".

In the Scottish Parliament, First Minister Jack McConnell said pupils had a right to protest.

"But I do not believe it is right for elected politicians to encourage young people to leave school," he added.

"I would strongly discourage any member of this parliament from encouraging any form of truancy."