GM Trees being grown at secret locations in Dundee

[kj]

Check this out...

Pretty interesting. I wonder where about they are.

[humndislocation]

Personally I think a lot of this anti-GM thing is a bit uninformed, with the exception of things that companies like Mon-Santo are doing, and making seeds that only work for one season, so they can screw over farmers (also suing farmers that had their plants pollinated by neighbouring GM crops).

For example, people saying things like "OH NO WHAT IF I EAT GM VEGETABLES AND THEN I END UP WITH JELLYFISH DNA". Because as everyone knows, if you eat something then you get its DNA. Like that time I ate a chicken and I grew wings, boy was my face red.

Oh no wait, I forgot, if you change the DNA of something, then that suddenly starts happening, because altered DNA is SCARY FRANKENSTEIN LOL. Oh yeah, plants will suddenly start breeding with other plants of a completely different species. These elm trees will start breeding with tomato plants, and we'll get giant killer tomatoes trying to eat everyone.

On the other hand, if there is any objection to GM foods that actually has some valid scientific basis, then I might be willing to change my opinion on this.

Oh yeah, as for where they are growing these trees. I'll bet it's the crop research centre behind camperdown, about one mile from muirhead/two miles from liff village. Even if it isn't, I bet the crop research place is due to get destroyed by a bunch of self-righteous hippies.

[AlanG]

Heres the relevent site at Abertay

http://www.ace.abertay.ac.uk/Site/plant_mol_science.htm

Im sure checking out where Abertay has their centres for that research would reveal the "secret indoor location"

[neilcoalesce]

Probably as well hidden as their "secret animal lab" that anyone on a science course figured out the location in about a few days.

[kj]

People have been growing GM crops for years through cross breeding etc. This is just a quicker way of doing it.

[Hecate]

GM crops are a bit different in that they have much higher yields in a lot less time, and for some trees because of concentration focused in these areas, they suffer from lack of physical strength. Some have been manipulated to kill insects in huge numbers compared to what happens naturally.

Factors like this can have a devastating impact on the future ecosystems and natural balance, especially in areas like rain forests, where there is still so much to discover, despite their rapid decline daily.

Because of the increasing reliance and push for using GM crops, their increasing numbers could easily cause them to pollinate areas hundreds and hundreds of miles away and take over in a very short time. However they do not always have the natural strength and resilience of the primary plants, causing more destrustion down the line to the plant and animal ecosystems existing at the moment.

Plants are like "lungs", we rely on them completely to replenish the air and enable all living creatures to breathe, if GM crops steadily take over, but are then unable to establish themselves in the way we would hope, also destroying huge numbers of insects in the process, and affecting all animals further along the chain, it could have major consequences.

We're told they are developed to feed more people, but at what cost? And think of the extra profits that can be made from them. There is plenty to go round just now, it's just distributed wrongly.

It's all unknown what will actually happen if they are grown more, and I'm certainly no expert, but I am concerned at the underhand pushing of these crops, as the government knows that given the choice the majority would vote against them until an awful lot more is known about them.

I think there needs to be more study into them before they should be introduced into the wild and allowed to pollinate freely.

[jynx]

Originally Posted by kj

People have been growing GM crops for years through cross breeding etc. This is just a quicker way of doing it.

Holy fuck, I scrolled down the page too fast and misread this post with one above and thought you'd said they'd cross bred animals and crops and told my brother, who believed me...who's now left the room..... oh well.

I'm gonna put some fur on a brussel sprout and pretend I found it....living out in the wild a freak of nature.

But yes, the GM debate, does anyone remember a few years back (maybe you can still get them) you got frozen veg. made to taste like pizza and chips and junkfood? I remember the whole issue came up then.

[humndislocation]

I was under the impression that with GM they technically are cross breeding plants and animals. Like using jellyfish DNA in plants.

[Red_Baron]

I think there needs to be more study into them before they should be introduced into the wild and allowed to pollinate freely.

The same can also be said for organic growing methods as the pesticides used in organic farming are largely derived from natural reseources but are still toxic to many of the ecosystem's animals, birds and fish but the full effects are not always researched in the same way as their synthetic counterparts (to be fair not all organic farmers use these chemicals and instead realy on better planning). I think there are 7 or 8 approved chemicals.

Also synthetic pesticides can be created that target only specific insects/diseases and do not effect other animals.

I think it's better to have a tree/plant that is bred to have resistance to a specific bug/disease so that it does not require any treatment of any kind and therefore does not effect the ecosystem so such a great extent. But it true that more research is needed, the problem is that the anti-GM brigade do their best to disrupt any serious research which is a shame.

Some sources of interesting info regarding the subject

http://www.defra.gov.uk/FARM/organic...lan/annex3.htm - point 7

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...s/organic.html

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

The same can also be said for organic growing methods as the pesticides used in organic farming are largely derived from natural reseources but are still toxic to many of the ecosystem's animals, birds and fish but the full effects are not always researched in the same way as their synthetic counterparts (to be fair not all organic farmers use these chemicals and instead realy on better planning). I think there are 7 or 8 approved chemicals.

Yes that's true, but they are far less dangerous as the pesticides are specifically targeted in certain areas, and although they can travel in the air a certain distance, they are unlike new pollen from GM plants in that they can't take seed somewhere and reproduce, creating more of the toxin that kills ecosystems.

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

I think it's better to have a tree/plant that is bred to have resistance to a specific bug/disease so that it does not require any treatment of any kind and therefore does not effect the ecosystem so such a great extent.

Some of these plants not only have resistence though, they are capable of killing off those pests in huge numbers, and are able to reproduce much quicker than naturally occurring varieties, and outwith their designated growing area, sometimes by hundreds and hundreds of miles.