Lebanon crisis

njw · 18th July 2006, 11:07 PM

I've searched around a bit and cant find a thread regarding this. It seems the middle eastern crisis involving Isreal and Lebanon is on the brink of escalating further. I was fairly unaware of exactly what was going on and the details of the Hezbollah were unclear but having looked into it it seems very worrying. Hezbollah claiming not only are they acting for the freedom of the Palistine people, but also making a stance against the USA on behalf of their allies Syria and Iran.

This means that whilst at the moment the only physical conflict lies between Isreal and Lebanon, the conflict could spread to include Iran and Syria. Reports suggest that the US will begin to make moves to become involved next week, which rules the UK in aswell.

Anyone have any more knowledge on this? Like I said I'm a bit sketchy on the history of it so any better info would be great...

Johnny5 · 18th July 2006, 11:56 PM

The Israeli PM today pinned blame on Iran being linked with the kidnappings of the two soldiers which sparked it all off, that's an outrageous claim but probably not far from the truth. It's escalating every day, I feel sorry for the Lebanese civilians (and the foreigners currently being rescued) who are feeling the full force of Israel's might. I feel they have went overboard on their reaction to the soldier's kidnapping.

I don't think it'll go much further, unless Israel attack Syria (which will bring Iran in, which will be WW3!), Israel seem very paranoid that Syria want to get back into Lebanon.
The UN want a ceasefire and a peacekeeping force to be brought in, there's already and passive peacekeeping force out there but a stronger one will act as a buffer. Ultimately I think Western pressure on Israel and Syria will bring this to a cagey end.

Israel's problem was that they pulled out of Lebanon, giving Hezbollah a free go at testing them and comitting violence, although they should never have been there in the first place.

It sounds strange but i think Israel just need to 'get this out of their system' so to speak, to seem strong and in control and that it'll hopefully calm down. It's absurd, so many civilians have died.

1010011010 · 19th July 2006, 07:53 AM

Yeah I don't think this is the start of WW3, but it is very serious. Since Syria pulled out of Lebanon, Hezbolllah has been able to gain a serious foothold in the South. The Lebanese Government have no control over Hezbollah and this is the problem.

Israel's repsonse has, to my mind been disproportionate. More than 200 Lebanese citizens have been killed since Israel launched air strikes last Wednesday following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by militant group Hezbollah.Twenty-four Israelis have died in the violence - 12 as a result of Hezbollah rocket attacks. Source: BBC News.

Israel will be "allowed" by the international community to pummel Lebanon for a while yet in attempt to weaken Hezbollah's infrastructure, then a multinational force will go in to help the Lebanese military regain control of it's border with Israel.

I couldn't believe it when I heard the one of the senior Israeli officials saying it's too early for a ceasefire. Surely there can be no such thing.

States attacking other states is bad. When states attack militant groups in other states it's even more horrific.

njw · 19th July 2006, 11:44 AM

im angered by the 'window of oppertunity' given to israel to inflict maximum damage before the international community get involved. Basically, its saying "we'll look the other way for a while, do what you want, and next week we'll try and stop you".

I guess we'll just have to watch and see how it pans out.

kj · 19th July 2006, 11:56 AM

As far as i know the window of opportunity was given to Israel by America and that seems to be another week before the American's step in. That is what I heard. Israel has also said today that it has no intention of attacking Syria or Iran during this conflict.

"We will leave Iran to the world community, and Syria as well," Vice Premier Shimon Peres told Army Radio. "It's very important to understand that we are not instilling world order."

So far 249 people have been killed in Lebanon as a direct result of Israeli bombardment and a further 25 Israeli civilians within Israel due to Hezbollah missiles.

I've also heard reports that Israeli troops have engaged Hezbollah fighters on the ground just inside Lebanon on the Lebanese - Israeli border.

Kenny · 19th July 2006, 12:07 PM

I wrote this elsewhere a day or two ago, it still holds, I think:

Quote:

I don't think we'll see 'war' as such though, because it's really not in the US' interests for it to kick off - despite them seemingly itching to fight Iran, they're really not, it's just posturing - and ultimately that'll be enough to rein in Israel. Not, unfortunately, until they feel they've suitably reasserted themselves and saved enough face though so it'll rumble on for a bit yet.

AlanG · 19th July 2006, 01:48 PM

Im getting really infuriated with the double standards and hypocricy surrounding this

Hamas kidnaps a soldier
Israel:"kidnapping is wrong so we will detain 1/3 of your government then complain your government isnt doing much to stop you"

Hezbollah kidnap soldier and as part of their demands want back Hezbollah militants who have been in Israeli jails for 20+ years

With both these groups and Israel being hit and claiming to be victims then tit-for-tat retaliations and the otehr side claiming to be victims etc.

The other one was the bleating that Hezbollah allegedly using Iranian bought weapons meant Iran was behind Hezbollahs actions. Israel using US and British bought weapons means is irrelevent however. Such simplistic arguments are worrying (and Im not meaning "Yo Blair")

All the while its the civilians of Israel, Palestine and Lebannon who are getting killed.

The part which is almost as bad is hearing various diplomats use appalling analogies in the news.

Last night there was an Isreali apologist using the following analogy(paraphrased)

"Hezbollah need to learn not to hit back at Israel. Didn't they learn in the playground what happens when you hit back at the bigger kids, you just get beaten harder"

He was trying to put across that Israel was more powerful and Hezbollah didnt stand a chance.

But to look at his analogy:
Maybe at his school. At decent ones the larger kid would be called a bully and pubished appropriatly by those who held authority over them.

Way to defeat your own argument numb nuts.

kj · 19th July 2006, 02:33 PM

The strange thing is how none of the Arab countries are using their influence to bring this to a conclusion instead relying on the West and Isreal, Lebanon and Palestine to sort it out themselves.

AlanG · 19th July 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kj

The strange thing is how none of the Arab countries are using their influence to bring this to a conclusion instead relying on the West and Isreal, Lebanon and Palestine to sort it out themselves.

The Arab League have been speaking to both sides to try and organise a cease fire/prisoner exchange. Amazingly our press isnt widely reporting it.

Every diplomat Ive seen wittering on TV has called for a cease fire to allow negotiations to take place. As any sesible person could see Hezbollah/Hamas arent gonna hand back the prisoners back whilst Israel is killing civilians in palestine and Lebannon for a number of reasons:

Things which aid Hamas/Hezbollah
1. it makes people hate Israel
2. A number of these will turn to the relevent group and see them standing up to Israel
3. Weakening of infrastructure of Palestine/Hamas, makes it easier for Hamas/Hezbollah to gain influence by claiming they have solutions/government was weak against Israel and they stand up to it/fight back

Things which hinder Hamas/Hezbollah
1. People will see them as being responsible? (not likely)
er thats it.

In short Hezbollah/Hamas have nothing to lose/everything to gain whilst Israel is pounding civilians.

kj · 19th July 2006, 11:01 PM

Lebanon is being completely destroyed, the infrastructure is ruined, hundreds of civilians have died and 500,000 people displaced. I'm still struggling to grasp just how the international community is letting this happen.

AlanG · 20th July 2006, 05:50 PM

Theres going to be a get together in City Centre at 12 on Saturday in loads of cities including Dundee. There was a hastily organised meet up on Wed too which got some press today apparantly

Johnny5 · 21st July 2006, 01:18 PM

Israel have called up reserve troops and warned civilians in Southern Lebanon to evacuate immediately, clearly a pre-cursor to a full scale ground invasion..
The Lebanese government said it's troops will go to war if Israel invade..
Hezbollah are still firing rockets at Haifa while saying they will only give up the kidnapped soldiers as part of a prisoner exchange..

Insane.

njw · 21st July 2006, 08:14 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5177932.stm

Have a look at this map. Take note of the Israeli strikes marked on the west bank, and the gaza strip, NOT in Lebanon.

All of johnnys points above are what I was gonna say! Things remain to look incredibly worrying, and in all honesty, not very many people here know whats going on!

18th July 2006, 11:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
njw Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: DD1 Posts: 8,234	Lebanon crisis I've searched around a bit and cant find a thread regarding this. It seems the middle eastern crisis involving Isreal and Lebanon is on the brink of escalating further. I was fairly unaware of exactly what was going on and the details of the Hezbollah were unclear but having looked into it it seems very worrying. Hezbollah claiming not only are they acting for the freedom of the Palistine people, but also making a stance against the USA on behalf of their allies Syria and Iran. This means that whilst at the moment the only physical conflict lies between Isreal and Lebanon, the conflict could spread to include Iran and Syria. Reports suggest that the US will begin to make moves to become involved next week, which rules the UK in aswell. Anyone have any more knowledge on this? Like I said I'm a bit sketchy on the history of it so any better info would be great... __________________ You can put a cat in the oven, but that doesn't make it a biscuit.

19th July 2006, 07:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
1010011010 In all his binary finery. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: City of Disco - Very. Posts: 1,048 Band: on the Run.	Yeah I don't think this is the start of WW3, but it is very serious. Since Syria pulled out of Lebanon, Hezbolllah has been able to gain a serious foothold in the South. The Lebanese Government have no control over Hezbollah and this is the problem. Israel's repsonse has, to my mind been disproportionate. More than 200 Lebanese citizens have been killed since Israel launched air strikes last Wednesday following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by militant group Hezbollah.Twenty-four Israelis have died in the violence - 12 as a result of Hezbollah rocket attacks. Source: BBC News. Israel will be "allowed" by the international community to pummel Lebanon for a while yet in attempt to weaken Hezbollah's infrastructure, then a multinational force will go in to help the Lebanese military regain control of it's border with Israel. I couldn't believe it when I heard the one of the senior Israeli officials saying it's too early for a ceasefire. Surely there can be no such thing. States attacking other states is bad. When states attack militant groups in other states it's even more horrific. __________________ Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that cannot eat money.

19th July 2006, 11:44 AM	#4 (permalink)
njw Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: DD1 Posts: 8,234	im angered by the 'window of oppertunity' given to israel to inflict maximum damage before the international community get involved. Basically, its saying "we'll look the other way for a while, do what you want, and next week we'll try and stop you". I guess we'll just have to watch and see how it pans out. __________________ You can put a cat in the oven, but that doesn't make it a biscuit.

19th July 2006, 11:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 14,227 Band: A band of merry men	As far as i know the window of opportunity was given to Israel by America and that seems to be another week before the American's step in. That is what I heard. Israel has also said today that it has no intention of attacking Syria or Iran during this conflict. "We will leave Iran to the world community, and Syria as well," Vice Premier Shimon Peres told Army Radio. "It's very important to understand that we are not instilling world order." So far 249 people have been killed in Lebanon as a direct result of Israeli bombardment and a further 25 Israeli civilians within Israel due to Hezbollah missiles. I've also heard reports that Israeli troops have engaged Hezbollah fighters on the ground just inside Lebanon on the Lebanese - Israeli border. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

19th July 2006, 01:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,429	Im getting really infuriated with the double standards and hypocricy surrounding this Hamas kidnaps a soldier Israel:"kidnapping is wrong so we will detain 1/3 of your government then complain your government isnt doing much to stop you" Hezbollah kidnap soldier and as part of their demands want back Hezbollah militants who have been in Israeli jails for 20+ years With both these groups and Israel being hit and claiming to be victims then tit-for-tat retaliations and the otehr side claiming to be victims etc. The other one was the bleating that Hezbollah allegedly using Iranian bought weapons meant Iran was behind Hezbollahs actions. Israel using US and British bought weapons means is irrelevent however. Such simplistic arguments are worrying (and Im not meaning "Yo Blair") All the while its the civilians of Israel, Palestine and Lebannon who are getting killed. The part which is almost as bad is hearing various diplomats use appalling analogies in the news. Last night there was an Isreali apologist using the following analogy(paraphrased) "Hezbollah need to learn not to hit back at Israel. Didn't they learn in the playground what happens when you hit back at the bigger kids, you just get beaten harder" He was trying to put across that Israel was more powerful and Hezbollah didnt stand a chance. But to look at his analogy: Maybe at his school. At decent ones the larger kid would be called a bully and pubished appropriatly by those who held authority over them. Way to defeat your own argument numb nuts. __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04 Last edited by AlanG : 19th July 2006 at 02:44 PM.

18th July 2006, 11:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Johnny5 cock in hand Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dundee Posts: 1,986	The Israeli PM today pinned blame on Iran being linked with the kidnappings of the two soldiers which sparked it all off, that's an outrageous claim but probably not far from the truth. It's escalating every day, I feel sorry for the Lebanese civilians (and the foreigners currently being rescued) who are feeling the full force of Israel's might. I feel they have went overboard on their reaction to the soldier's kidnapping. I don't think it'll go much further, unless Israel attack Syria (which will bring Iran in, which will be WW3!), Israel seem very paranoid that Syria want to get back into Lebanon. The UN want a ceasefire and a peacekeeping force to be brought in, there's already and passive peacekeeping force out there but a stronger one will act as a buffer. Ultimately I think Western pressure on Israel and Syria will bring this to a cagey end. Israel's problem was that they pulled out of Lebanon, giving Hezbollah a free go at testing them and comitting violence, although they should never have been there in the first place. It sounds strange but i think Israel just need to 'get this out of their system' so to speak, to seem strong and in control and that it'll hopefully calm down. It's absurd, so many civilians have died.

19th July 2006, 02:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 14,227 Band: A band of merry men	The strange thing is how none of the Arab countries are using their influence to bring this to a conclusion instead relying on the West and Isreal, Lebanon and Palestine to sort it out themselves. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

19th July 2006, 11:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 14,227 Band: A band of merry men	Lebanon is being completely destroyed, the infrastructure is ruined, hundreds of civilians have died and 500,000 people displaced. I'm still struggling to grasp just how the international community is letting this happen. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

20th July 2006, 05:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,429	Theres going to be a get together in City Centre at 12 on Saturday in loads of cities including Dundee. There was a hastily organised meet up on Wed too which got some press today apparantly __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

21st July 2006, 01:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
Johnny5 cock in hand Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dundee Posts: 1,986	Israel have called up reserve troops and warned civilians in Southern Lebanon to evacuate immediately, clearly a pre-cursor to a full scale ground invasion.. The Lebanese government said it's troops will go to war if Israel invade.. Hezbollah are still firing rockets at Haifa while saying they will only give up the kidnapped soldiers as part of a prisoner exchange.. Insane.

21st July 2006, 08:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
njw Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: DD1 Posts: 8,234	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5177932.stm Have a look at this map. Take note of the Israeli strikes marked on the west bank, and the gaza strip, NOT in Lebanon. All of johnnys points above are what I was gonna say! Things remain to look incredibly worrying, and in all honesty, not very many people here know whats going on! __________________ You can put a cat in the oven, but that doesn't make it a biscuit. Last edited by njw : 21st July 2006 at 08:17 PM.