£300,000 discrimination against women - Page 5

Rebelius · 2nd November 2006, 10:06 PM

you dont get paid for being of value to society - someone who stays home and looks after their kids doesn't deserve a share of the profits from people buying things they don't need, the person who came up with the way to sell people stuff they don't need does. It's not a comment about society, it's a comment about business.

Püke Fyst · 2nd November 2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelius

you dont get paid for being of value to society

That's the point i'm trying to make, you should be.

graham enzk · 2nd November 2006, 10:16 PM

why?
paid by who exactly?

Rebelius · 2nd November 2006, 10:33 PM

where's the money going to come from? people who MAKE MONEY FOR A COMPANY get PAID for it, they probably do their job because they want a well-paid job. people who are carers do it because they choose to, it makes them feel good to know they are helping someone, they get some money so that they don't go broke from being nice - they don't get enough to live a life of luxury, but if they wanted to live a life of luxury, they'd probably get trained to do a high-paid job and not change old people's underpants.

humndislocation · 3rd November 2006, 12:45 PM

I'll agree that mothers should be paid, when you can be fired from the job for being a bad mother.

If mothers should be paid to stay at home, then I think they should have to meet minimum quality standards. Otherwise you'd just end up with neds getting pregnant and having a kid purely for the money.

RiseAgainst · 3rd November 2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humndislocation

I'll agree that mothers should be paid, when you can be fired from the job for being a bad mother.

good point

would anyone bother taking a high pressure job such as say prime minister or something if they can just change nappies and get by comfortably?

graham enzk · 3rd November 2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humndislocation

Otherwise you'd just end up with neds getting pregnant and having a kid purely for the money.

they already do. kids are the cash cow if you're on benefits. £45 per kid per week on your IS plus family premium.

Hecate · 3rd November 2006, 04:34 PM

From the EOC website:

"Many people think that women and men today get an equal deal. This is not the case. We've had laws against sex discrimination for 30 years, but many women are still treated unfairly because of their sex.
Equal at work?
The average full-time, hourly wage for a man is £14.08, and for a woman is £11.67. Women who work part-time earn even less, only £8.68 per hour or 61.6% of the rate for men working full-time. This ‘pay gap’ between men working full-time and women working part-time has changed little in the last 30 years.

There are still stereotypes about ‘women’s work’ and ‘men’s work’. Low-paid jobs done mainly by women are found in cleaning, catering, caring, cashiering and clerical work. Stereotypes can prevent people choosing certain career paths. Only 2% of childcare workers are men. Fewer than 1% of plumbers are women.

Getting fair treatment?
More than 200,000 women a year in Britain experience dismissal or disadvantageous treatment at work because of their pregnancy. In large organisations, women are still underrepresented in positions of power. Only 9% of senior judges and 10% of senior police officers are women.

Getting equal services?
Men do not visit their doctors as often as women, which could mean later treatment of illnesses and further health problems as a result. Women and children are the majority of bus passengers, but few allowances are made for women who have to juggle children, pushchairs and/or heavy shopping.

Equal when it comes to caring?
Almost four out of ten mothers have left a job or been unable to take a job because of their parenting responsibilities. The same is the case for over one in ten fathers, and two in ten carers experience similar difficulties. Five out of six recently-retired women are not entitled to the full basic state pension based on their own contributions. Time spent caring for children or other family members is not fully recognised and can contribute to women’s poverty in retirement.

Equal chances
In a fair society, things would be different for men and women. This is what a fair society would be like:
Women can achieve their economic potential
When women and men choose jobs or educational courses there are no stereotypes regarding career paths and roles.
Flexible working is commonplace, available to women and men in all jobs.
Women and men get equal pay.
Caring commitments do not trap women in low paid work.
Public services suit women's and men's lives
Women and men get the service they need from health, local councils and other public services.
From transport to training, childcare to healthcare, services will meet women's needs as well as men's.
The people who plan services consider the different needs of women and men from the start.
There is no sex discrimination
Women and men, whatever their job, get fair treatment at work, regardless of their sex.
Workers and employers are aware of their rights and responsibilities, and can easily get expert help and advice when they need it.
There is no institutional discrimination.
We recognise and value caring
Carers get practical and financial support from employers and the state.
Women and men can choose how they share the responsibilities of childcare, caring for disabled or frail relatives or friends, and paid work.
Parents and carers have real choices about the amount of caring and paid work they do.
Everyone is guaranteed a decent pension, which recognises the unpaid caring that people do for their families and others.
Making change happen
We are working to get an equal deal for women and men. Here's how:
By providing advice and information to the public about their legal rights, what options they have, and the next steps they can take.

By taking legal cases under the Sex Discrimination Act and the Equal Pay Act. These cases help to secure equal treatment for women and men in the areas of pay, pensions and caring.

By publishing research and statistics about women's and men's lives. These show clearly and simply where change is needed.

By running high-profile campaigns to change public opinion and the law.

By investigating organisations or areas of life where sex discrimination is common. We have legal powers of enforcement to help us with this.

Our priorities
We think that work, caring and public services need to be transformed so that they reflect the real needs in women's and men's lives.

Over the next three years we will work to:
close the 'pay gap' so that women's and men's earnings are the same

open up job choices so that women and men can find well-paid work and vocational training based on their skills and aspirations. This includes improving job opportunities for ethnic minority women

improve support for parents and carers and help employers deal positively with pregnancy, so that it is easier for women and men in all jobs to have the flexibility to combine paid work, childcare and other caring commitments

secure a decent pension for everyone so that carers don't suffer financially in their older years because they have spent time looking after children or others

promote equality in public services so that health, education, transport, policing and other public services take women's and men's differing needs into account when they plan and deliver services

investigate unlawful practices at work, help individuals to secure their rights, and campaign for modernisation of the law to help tackle deep rooted inequality"

Rebelius · 3rd November 2006, 04:40 PM

Sorry, i haven't read it all, but i just want to point out that this:

"Many people think that women and men today get an equal deal. This is not the case....
Equal at work?
The average full-time, hourly wage for a man is £14.08, and for a woman is £11.67."

IS NOT SEX DISCRIMINATION!!! That's women choosing different jobs to men.

Hecate · 3rd November 2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelius

Sorry, i haven't read it all, but i just want to point out that this:

"Many people think that women and men today get an equal deal. This is not the case....
Equal at work?
The average full-time, hourly wage for a man is £14.08, and for a woman is £11.67."

IS NOT SEX DISCRIMINATION!!! That's women choosing different jobs to men.

You should read the rest as it goes into that in more detail.

Rebelius · 3rd November 2006, 04:46 PM

i have read it now, and most of it's a load of crap - women can choose not to care for people and just make money for themselves if they want. The stereotypes don't actually stop women becoming plumbers.

humndislocation · 4th November 2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EOC

There are still stereotypes about ‘women’s work’ and ‘men’s work’. Low-paid jobs done mainly by women are found in cleaning, catering, caring, cashiering and clerical work. Stereotypes can prevent people choosing certain career paths. Only 2% of childcare workers are men. Fewer than 1% of plumbers are women.

They'

3rd November 2006, 12:45 PM	#65 (permalink)
humndislocation Hardcore is serious guys Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dundee Posts: 6,009 Band: Blasphemous Necrorapist	I'll agree that mothers should be paid, when you can be fired from the job for being a bad mother. If mothers should be paid to stay at home, then I think they should have to meet minimum quality standards. Otherwise you'd just end up with neds getting pregnant and having a kid purely for the money. Last edited by humndislocation : 3rd November 2006 at 12:52 PM.

2nd November 2006, 10:06 PM	#61 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,220	you dont get paid for being of value to society - someone who stays home and looks after their kids doesn't deserve a share of the profits from people buying things they don't need, the person who came up with the way to sell people stuff they don't need does. It's not a comment about society, it's a comment about business.

2nd November 2006, 10:16 PM	#63 (permalink)
graham enzk Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: back in the day Posts: 2,778 Band: condition21, ultramegaholocausticwhi rlwindzombiedeathsquad , utter fucking hate, distorted noise, tin pot hippies, spiteful	why? paid by who exactly?

2nd November 2006, 10:33 PM	#64 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,220	where's the money going to come from? people who MAKE MONEY FOR A COMPANY get PAID for it, they probably do their job because they want a well-paid job. people who are carers do it because they choose to, it makes them feel good to know they are helping someone, they get some money so that they don't go broke from being nice - they don't get enough to live a life of luxury, but if they wanted to live a life of luxury, they'd probably get trained to do a high-paid job and not change old people's underpants.

3rd November 2006, 04:34 PM	#68 (permalink)
Hecate Don Kate (UGS Mafia) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: somewhere Posts: 2,477 Band: Vulsellum	From the EOC website: "Many people think that women and men today get an equal deal. This is not the case. We've had laws against sex discrimination for 30 years, but many women are still treated unfairly because of their sex. Equal at work? The average full-time, hourly wage for a man is £14.08, and for a woman is £11.67. Women who work part-time earn even less, only £8.68 per hour or 61.6% of the rate for men working full-time. This ‘pay gap’ between men working full-time and women working part-time has changed little in the last 30 years. There are still stereotypes about ‘women’s work’ and ‘men’s work’. Low-paid jobs done mainly by women are found in cleaning, catering, caring, cashiering and clerical work. Stereotypes can prevent people choosing certain career paths. Only 2% of childcare workers are men. Fewer than 1% of plumbers are women. Getting fair treatment? More than 200,000 women a year in Britain experience dismissal or disadvantageous treatment at work because of their pregnancy. In large organisations, women are still underrepresented in positions of power. Only 9% of senior judges and 10% of senior police officers are women. Getting equal services? Men do not visit their doctors as often as women, which could mean later treatment of illnesses and further health problems as a result. Women and children are the majority of bus passengers, but few allowances are made for women who have to juggle children, pushchairs and/or heavy shopping. Equal when it comes to caring? Almost four out of ten mothers have left a job or been unable to take a job because of their parenting responsibilities. The same is the case for over one in ten fathers, and two in ten carers experience similar difficulties. Five out of six recently-retired women are not entitled to the full basic state pension based on their own contributions. Time spent caring for children or other family members is not fully recognised and can contribute to women’s poverty in retirement. Equal chances In a fair society, things would be different for men and women. This is what a fair society would be like: Women can achieve their economic potential When women and men choose jobs or educational courses there are no stereotypes regarding career paths and roles. Flexible working is commonplace, available to women and men in all jobs. Women and men get equal pay. Caring commitments do not trap women in low paid work. Public services suit women's and men's lives Women and men get the service they need from health, local councils and other public services. From transport to training, childcare to healthcare, services will meet women's needs as well as men's. The people who plan services consider the different needs of women and men from the start. There is no sex discrimination Women and men, whatever their job, get fair treatment at work, regardless of their sex. Workers and employers are aware of their rights and responsibilities, and can easily get expert help and advice when they need it. There is no institutional discrimination. We recognise and value caring Carers get practical and financial support from employers and the state. Women and men can choose how they share the responsibilities of childcare, caring for disabled or frail relatives or friends, and paid work. Parents and carers have real choices about the amount of caring and paid work they do. Everyone is guaranteed a decent pension, which recognises the unpaid caring that people do for their families and others. Making change happen We are working to get an equal deal for women and men. Here's how: By providing advice and information to the public about their legal rights, what options they have, and the next steps they can take. By taking legal cases under the Sex Discrimination Act and the Equal Pay Act. These cases help to secure equal treatment for women and men in the areas of pay, pensions and caring. By publishing research and statistics about women's and men's lives. These show clearly and simply where change is needed. By running high-profile campaigns to change public opinion and the law. By investigating organisations or areas of life where sex discrimination is common. We have legal powers of enforcement to help us with this. Our priorities We think that work, caring and public services need to be transformed so that they reflect the real needs in women's and men's lives. Over the next three years we will work to: close the 'pay gap' so that women's and men's earnings are the same open up job choices so that women and men can find well-paid work and vocational training based on their skills and aspirations. This includes improving job opportunities for ethnic minority women improve support for parents and carers and help employers deal positively with pregnancy, so that it is easier for women and men in all jobs to have the flexibility to combine paid work, childcare and other caring commitments secure a decent pension for everyone so that carers don't suffer financially in their older years because they have spent time looking after children or others promote equality in public services so that health, education, transport, policing and other public services take women's and men's differing needs into account when they plan and deliver services investigate unlawful practices at work, help individuals to secure their rights, and campaign for modernisation of the law to help tackle deep rooted inequality"

3rd November 2006, 04:40 PM	#69 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,220	Sorry, i haven't read it all, but i just want to point out that this: "Many people think that women and men today get an equal deal. This is not the case.... Equal at work? The average full-time, hourly wage for a man is £14.08, and for a woman is £11.67." IS NOT SEX DISCRIMINATION!!! That's women choosing different jobs to men.

3rd November 2006, 04:46 PM	#71 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,220	i have read it now, and most of it's a load of crap - women can choose not to care for people and just make money for themselves if they want. The stereotypes don't actually stop women becoming plumbers.