The non-thinking that is Religion.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

No it's not, it's a scientific phenomenon that yet to be explained. It is NOT supernatural.

If it doesn't adhere to a natural law, then it is supernatural.

[LesMts]

Originally Posted by freakonaleash

But you wouldn't have been able to say that if you had been studying the atom and quantum physics years ago. Has science stood still now? No.
And much is still unexplainable in those areas.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. Maybe because I've had a few beers.
Unexplained doesn't mean unexplainable.
Also, you're dealing with theoretical physics here, which is highly speculative. Scientists don't deny that. A massive popular culture has leapt up around "quantum physics" which, a lot of the time, ignores that an awful lot of it is conjecture and intellectual play.
Relating quantum physics to the spiritual, as seems to be de rigeur in new age circles, is completely fallacious.

[DissolveD_JameS]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

Well, if you can tell me what he said beyond 'I believe in this, no I don't' then be my guest.

You're now debating whether or not I have contributed to the debate?


Firstly... that's just dumb.

Secondly... this is not a debate. It had a lot of potential in being one but you lack the diplomacy in giving the subject a fair trial. I joined the discussion taking no sides, I had no intention other than to share my thoughts yet you have been entirely against me for it. Pedantic definitions and false-statements that stray from the point others are trying to make makes this thread laughable. It is indeed the most non-thinking I have seen in a long time.

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by freakonaleash

If it doesn't adhere to a natural law, then it is supernatural.

But eventually a 'natural' law will be discovered to explain it. So it will not have been supernatural at any point. Les made this clear with his assertion that the discovery that the Earth orbits the Sun didn't mean that it had been the other way around before.

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by DissolveD_JameS

You're now debating whether or not I have contributed to the debate?


Firstly... that's just dumb.

Secondly... this is not a debate. It had a lot of potential in being one but you lack the diplomacy in giving the subject a fair trial. I joined the discussion taking no sides, I had no intention other than to share my thoughts yet you have been entirely against me for it. Pedantic definitions and false-statements that stray from the point others are trying to make makes this thread laughable. It is indeed the most non-thinking I have seen in a long time.

James! You haven't yet said anything! Every statement you've made has been followed up with something along the lines of 'or maybe not' or 'but then again I don't believe it'

It's difficult to work out what you are trying to say when you are being so vague and doubling back on yourself repeatedly. You don't even seem to be aware that you're doing it.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

But it doesn't make the things we don't yet know or haven't yet worked out supernatural does it?

^^ See my previous post.

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

Just because we don't yet understand something doesn't mean that god/pixies/ghosts/good karma/buddha/Barney the Purple Dinosaur/fairies made it!

Who said anything about "making things". I said that creationism a pile of shite.

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

In the cold hard light of reality

Reality? What is our reality Alex? String theory? Sub-atomic particles "borrowing" energy from the future to create and destroy themselves continuously all around us?
We know very little!

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

But eventually a 'natural' law will be discovered to explain it.

Wow, can I get a crystal ball like yours Alex?

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by freakonaleash

Wow, can I get a crystal ball like yours Alex?

I don't need one!! We live in a physical universe where everything WILL have an explanation! It doesn't matter if it takes us a million years to work it out, there will be a perfectly rational reason for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we see, no matter how bizarre it is. If it exists within the Universe then it has to obey the physics of the Universe....and as such will be eventually explainable.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

I don't need one!! We live in a physical universe where everything WILL have an explanation! It doesn't matter if it takes us a million years to work it out, there will be a perfectly rational reason for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we see, no matter how bizarre it is. If it exists within the Universe then it has to obey the physics of the Universe....and as such will be eventually explainable.

How do you know? Are you omnipotent?

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by freakonaleash

Reality? What is our reality Alex? String theory? Sub-atomic particles "borrowing" energy from the future to create and destroy themselves continuously all around us?
We know very little!

ARGH!!! FUCKING HELL!!!!

BUT ONE DAY WE WILL UNDERSTAND!!

We know very little now but we now FUCKLOADS more than we did even 50 years ago!

There is no such thing as a supernatural phenomenon, because it would have to exist outside the rules that govern the entire Universe to exist. There may be bizarre and incredible things, but they are things that exist within the Universe's physical constants none the less.

[humndislocation]

Originally Posted by freakonaleash

We are only on the cusp of discoveries concerning anti-matter, and still don't know conclusively what holds the universe together. And now we have discovered that a vacuum contains many sub-atomic particles continually forming and being destroyed, and that they can even borrow energy from the future to kick-start that process.
In fact, everything you see around you (and ourselves) is the left-over products of these minute creations and explosions, which are going on all the time around us.

Hehe I take it you saw that program on the atom last week too? T'was interesting stuff!

I love quantum physics.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by humndislocation

Haha I take it you saw that program on the atom last week too? T'was interesting stuff!

Yes! It was brilliant