The non-thinking that is Religion. - Page 49

Rebelius · 18th November 2007, 02:12 AM

I think you'll find there are plenty.

I'm a mathematician, me.

: : Scott : : · 18th November 2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMts

Tough shit. There are none.

e: switched image

LesMts · 18th November 2007, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebelius

I think you'll find there are plenty.

I'm a mathematician, me.

Maths is self-contained and axiomatic.
I'm undecided as to whether maths is a science. Although that opens up a whole can of philosophical worms.
Can you prove that a mathematical principle will hold at all points, everywhere?
No.
But it probably will, at least as far as it's useful. Which is my point.

Rebelius · 18th November 2007, 02:40 AM

if you don't try and relate it to the universe or anything, just to the self-contained axiomatic field of maths, then it's always going to be right.

there's certainly no error bars.

LesMts · 18th November 2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humndislocation

Is that an absolute truth?

Lord, this question had opened up a can of worms in my drunken head.
I'd say, drunk as I am, short answer: yes, as far as things are meaningful
Long answer: no

Thanks for sending my ethanol-sodden mind into freefall.

humndislocation · 18th November 2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMts

Lord, this question had opened up a can of worms in my drunken head.
I'd say, drunk as I am, short answer: yes, as far as things are meaningful
Long answer: no

Thanks for sending my ethanol-sodden mind into freefall.

Hahaha sorry, I couldn't resist.

Ewan_C · 21st November 2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMts

Maths is self-contained and axiomatic.
I'm undecided as to whether maths is a science. Although that opens up a whole can of philosophical worms.
Can you prove that a mathematical principle will hold at all points, everywhere?
No.
But it probably will, at least as far as it's useful. Which is my point.

Mathematics is the only truly untainted form of thought. Everything else to an extent is tainted by opinion. Biology, chemistry, physics, philosophy, religion, etc all to an extent are 'tainted' by opinions. Pure Mathematics isn't.

And yes mathematical principles hold at all points, everywhere. Thats the very nature of the proofs. Things aren't proved in 2D or 3D space only but over all spaces. I'm not talking about formals used by physics, which don't always hold true. I'm talking pure mathematics here: abstract algebra, topology, analysis... There are so many absolute truths in Mathematics which have been rigorously proven.

You should check out what Alain Badiou(most important living philosopher?) has to say on this or anything else for that matter.

LesMts · 21st November 2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewan_C

Mathematics is the only truly untainted form of thought. Everything else to an extent is tainted by opinion. Biology, chemistry, physics, philosophy, religion, etc all to an extent are 'tainted' by opinions. Pure Mathematics isn't.

And yes mathematical principles hold at all points, everywhere. Thats the very nature of the proofs. Things aren't proved in 2D or 3D space only but over all spaces. I'm not talking about formals used by physics, which don't always hold true. I'm talking pure mathematics here: abstract algebra, topology, analysis... There are so many absolute truths in Mathematics which have been rigorously proven.

You should check out what Alain Badiou(most important living philosopher?) has to say on this or anything else for that matter.

Maths requires the blind acceptance of axioms which seem self-evident (things like doing basic computations: summing, multiplication etc).
You can't prove that these basic axioms which the principles and proofs rest on will hold at all points at all times. You can validly assume so, but you can't prove it.
Therefore you can't accept maths as absolutely true, but for all practical purposes it's an unequaled tool.

Thee Alex · 21st November 2007, 10:07 PM

Hey Les, any news on that lecture? Penny and I need to work out whether we're coming up or not

MelFajardo · 21st November 2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

Hey Les, any news on that lecture? Penny and I need to work out whether we're coming up or not

Thee Alex · 21st November 2007, 10:44 PM

Where did you get that picture of me!!!!! ?????

MelFajardo · 21st November 2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

Where did you get that picture of me!!!!! ?????

you don't mind a dirty girl.

Thee Alex · 21st November 2007, 11:54 PM

You remind me very much of Kirstin.

18th November 2007, 02:12 AM	#721 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,149	I think you'll find there are plenty. I'm a mathematician, me.

18th November 2007, 02:40 AM	#724 (permalink)
Rebelius Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 7,149	if you don't try and relate it to the universe or anything, just to the self-contained axiomatic field of maths, then it's always going to be right. there's certainly no error bars.

21st November 2007, 10:07 PM	#729 (permalink)
Thee Alex UGS Assassin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Solihull, West Midlands Posts: 3,969 Band: Wülfstabber, Catface, DJ Wrong Homer, Wings & Claws, Señor Citizen, WRRRMS	Hey Les, any news on that lecture? Penny and I need to work out whether we're coming up or not

21st November 2007, 10:44 PM	#731 (permalink)
Thee Alex UGS Assassin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Solihull, West Midlands Posts: 3,969 Band: Wülfstabber, Catface, DJ Wrong Homer, Wings & Claws, Señor Citizen, WRRRMS	Where did you get that picture of me!!!!! ?????

21st November 2007, 11:54 PM	#733 (permalink)
Thee Alex UGS Assassin Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Solihull, West Midlands Posts: 3,969 Band: Wülfstabber, Catface, DJ Wrong Homer, Wings & Claws, Señor Citizen, WRRRMS	You remind me very much of Kirstin.