The non-thinking that is Religion.

[Thee Alex]

There are a lot of really good videos available on Googlevideo that utterly gun down the myth and nonsense of religion.

Here are some links to the best IMO


The Root of All Evil? Part 1: The God Delusion. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
Part one of the EXCELLENT 'Root of All Evil' written and presented by Richard Dawkins

The Root of All Evil? Part 2: The Virus of Faith. (Richard Dawkins, 2006) - part two

The Blind Watch Maker Richard Dawkins 1987 Some Dawkins from the end of the 80's, a fantastic show.

Richard Dawkins' jaw-dropping talk on our bizarre universe (TEDTalks) - a frankly outstanding talk about the nature of the Universe.



7|-|3_60|)_\/\/|-|0_\/\/45|\|7_7|-|3|23 - this is 'The God Who Wasn't There' (title is in 'hackspeak' at the top of page to prevent it being picked up on by the Googlevideo copyright robots.


I'm hoping someone will put 'Enemies of Reason' up on Googlevideo soon as I'm going to be out tonight when it's shown.

[LesMts]

Dawkins is one of my favourite writers. He's also a fantastic orator, immensely knowledgeable and completely right.
However, he is also smug, arrogant and often snidey. He alienates and puts off fence-sitters who could otherwise be drawn to the good fight.
I can't help feeling that we could do with a more tactful populariser of science, someone who comes across as more reasonable in their furthering of reason. Dr Ben Goldacre would be a good candidate.

That said, it is entertaining (from my completely non-fence-sitting perspective) to watch Dawkins lay into new-age/religious sorts like Mike Tyson taking on a gang of five year old girls.

[Pubic Wig]

I often find that people with no religious beliefs and try to force their way of thinking down ones throat are as bad as those who do have religious beliefs and do the same thing.

Just a thought.

[johnny?]

Originally Posted by Pubic Wig

I often find that people with no religious beliefs and try to force their way of thinking down ones throat are as bad as those who do have religious beliefs and do the same thing.

Just a thought.

Yup.

What about the people with religious beliefs who fit in to society in a very standard way? This anti-religious kerfuffin is just as offensive as i'm sure numpty zealots are to a sane person.

[LesMts]

Originally Posted by Pubic Wig

I often find that people with no religious beliefs and try to force their way of thinking down ones throat are as bad as those who do have religious beliefs and do the same thing.

Well, Dawkins doesn't really force his opinions on anyone. He just mercilessly tears religion and the new age movement to pieces in his books and documentaries.
He's not coming round to anyone's house and making them read or watch, Clockwork Orange style.

But, like I said, it would be good to have someone who does the same thing in a more tactful, less arrogant and sneering way. That might involve more people who haven't made their minds up yet.

A lot of people back away from or mistrust science because they see it as a collection of statements or dictated 'truths' which might contradict their world view. What is often ignored or unappreciated is the process of science, how these conclusions are arrived at. Namely, the scientific method, which is mankinds greatest achievement and, while it is imperfect, there exists no better way of assessing the 'nature of the universe' objectively.

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by Pubic Wig

I often find that people with no religious beliefs and try to force their way of thinking down ones throat are as bad as those who do have religious beliefs and do the same thing.

Just a thought.

I disagree. I think religious belief is such a backwards, dark ages way of thinking that it should be challenged at every turn. Religion is (IMO) utterly evil in the bullshit it spouts from its selfrighteous, truth denying, mouth.

I used to be a 'live and let live' atheist but now I'm very much a militant one. I would happily see religion and its associated crap scoured from the face of the planet. At least then we could just accept that *we're* the bad ones when we do bad things, rather than blaming it on some non-existent Sky-god.

It comes down to who is right and who is wrong. I firmly and completely believe that religious believe is wrong, as wrong as thinking the earth is flat or only 6000 years old (the latter being something that fundamentalist christians hold as fact). To allow this kind of nonsensical, superstitious way of thinking to hold any level of credence or authority is a gross neglect of our duty to one another as human beings.

There should be more people out there like Dawkins, Hitchens and the rest of the 'angry atheist' crowd. Rational thought has been sidelined for too long and, by doing nothing, the atheist gives tacit approval to the evils being perpetrated in the name of 'god'.

The last ten years has seen a terrifying rise in religious thinking, look at the major conflicts in the world - on one side you have the US government, led by a born again christian and drawing its support from fundamentalist churches, and on the other you have Islamist wahhabi extremists misreading the Koran and trying to create a global Muslim state for the Umma which will be governed by Shariah law. Both points of view are so obscene and based on ancient myth and superstition that they should be actively struggled against.

You wouldn't want someone who thought that the world was flat to be your PM or President would you? So why do we allow these deluded fools who believe in 'god' to have any power? Why do we put up with it?

[Severed666]

I dont believe in religion at all, but i know alot of people who do that are great people and dont talk about their beliefs. I think if they're believing in something that makes them happy and not stuffing it down peoples throats then nobody has a right dictate to them or tell them different. At the end of the day its there lives and it'd be nice to think people have enough going on in their own lives without concerning themselves with what other people choose to believe in. Just my opinion as i know i dont lose sleep over people i know believing in god, i dont think bad of them for it either.

I'm talking about your average harmless religious person as johnny mentioned above, not a complete extremist type who forces it onto people and hurts others because of religion cos obviously i dont agree with that.

[LesMts]

Originally Posted by Thee Alex

There should be more people out there like Dawkins, Hitchens and the rest of the 'angry atheist' crowd. Rational thought has been sidelined for too long and, by doing nothing, the atheist gives tacit approval to the evils being perpetrated in the name of 'god'.

It's just that when someone talks to people like they're morons or children, as Dawkins frequently does, then the response is almost always to become defensive and retreat back into whatever beliefs they hold.
I think Dawkins is extremely entertaining but not efficacious at all. Respectful, good natured and populist debate would probably do more to turn people away from new-age/religious/wooooooo-supernatural nonsense than Dawkins's intellectually-macho, machine-gunning fish in a barrel approach.

[Keerin]

Originally Posted by LesMts

Dawkins's intellectually-macho, machine-gunning fish in a barrel approach.

hahaha, brilliant expression!

I've never been much into god or religion. In my mind, it doesn't make sense. I'm not a scientist but I do have a naturally analytical mind (even if I'm a bit lazy sometimes to use it) and I think waaay too much.

I decided yesterday that most religious beliefs are metaphorical. The problems that religion has caused all stem from people taking metaphorical advice as literal. Heaven and Hell for example. Living your life as a "Good Christian" is supposed to get you into heaven (popular beliefe anyway) but people take this as a tangible thing and talk about spitits and souls and suchlike. To me, being kind and generally a "good" person will make people remember you fondly, or at least remember you. I think that is what heaven is. The rest is storytelling.

Lynn was telling me that she had a discussion with her employer (she is a carer for a woman in a wheelchair) who is a catholic. Some of the things she said were actually quite worrying. I mean, surely it's more to the detriment of the individual if they are told (regarding homosexuality) "Think whatever you want but do not act". That sort of shit should be stamped out.

The main thing that annoys me about religion is that people quote lines from the bible and things but how many have read it? To base your whole life on a book you have not read? A whole life, without questioning something we all hear as childrens stories? To me, that's the same as hoping one day to own a house made of gingerbread to trap and eat children.

*please dont let this thread turn into another locked thread because of stupid keyboard flame wars!*

[johnny?]

Originally Posted by Keerin

The main thing that annoys me about religion is that people quote lines from the bible and things but how many have read it? To base your whole life on a book you have not read? A whole life, without questioning something we all hear as childrens stories? To me, that's the same as hoping one day to own a house made of gingerbread to trap and eat children.

Who does that though, do you experience that in your day to day life?

Generally (and definitely not directed at anyone here) people have very blinkered views on Religion that are just as ignorant as supposed 'religious nuts' are. In my experience anyway.
I doubt many people are familiar enough with these actual religions to proclaim them as evil behemoths who are out to brainwash your kids and send the rest to limbo.

I myself, was raised as a Catholic and while as a young person I am completely out of touch with the organised nature of Catholicism, I still have core beliefs that I hold dear to me, for a variety of reasons. I don't believe myself to be insane or hold dangerous beliefs that are 'against the very core of our society' or other such reactionary drivel.

It's all very good proclaiming religion as the main reason for wars or whatever, but any person with common sense can see it's the people using religion as an excuse to mount egotistical power trips on the world and nothing to do with any spiritual belief anyone has.

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by LesMts

It's just that when someone talks to people like they're morons or children...

But they are morons, and religious belief is part of the infancy of our species and, as such, is something we should have grown out of.

[Thee Alex]

Originally Posted by Severed666

I'm talking about your average harmless religious person

There is no such thing. Anyone allowing themselves to be convinced by the woolly headed nonsense of religion is an idiot. It's that simple.

These 'harmless' millions provide a support base for the maniacs and bullies trying to ruin the world for the rest of us.

Listen to this - http://richarddawkins.net/audio/NowS...4-20070720.mp3