The Death Of The High Street

[RiseAgainst]

Thought id start a new thread that'd allow a good discussion without anyone going on any smug fuelled rant against everyone


Was watching a TV show the other night that showed how the high street is almost exactly the same shops in most major towns, is this a bad thing?

Does the convinience of being able to shop at Woolies/HMV/Primark etc really matter when you can buy stuff online?

Does the likes of Tesco selling anything and everything under one roof threaten the big players on the high street?

How about the family run business that struggles along? Is this a case of monopolies dominating or is it just survival of the fittest?

Would you prefer to shop online, in the high street or at small family run places? and why?

[Keerin]

Dude, I wrote a letter into the Arbroath Herald regarding this subject two weeks ago. It was like talking to a brick wall. or someone who doesn't give a shit.

Here is the letter I wrote. It was originally around 700 words but that wouldnt get published so I cut it down to 300

Why are there councillors and members of the local business association trying to over-rule a decision to block Asda opening in Arbroath? There are many reasons I can think of to NOT open a store, but I struggle to comprehend how local business owners can say that Asda opening in Arbroath is a good thing? Have they not looked towards any other town where Asda (or indeed Tesco) has opened?

If they had, they would have discovered that tens of thousands of small independent shops have closed down in the last 10 years and this is directly linked to supermarkets opening and gaining a larger market share. They may have also come across a two year old study done in Northumberland which found that £1 spent locally was worth nearly 400% to the local economy. Money spent in a national supermarket chain rarely sees the local economy again with around 5% is put back in.

In addition to this, supermarkets have to have a significantly higher turnover to employ staff than locally owned businesses. The convenience store sector accounted for over 500,000 employees from a turnover of around £21bn in 2004. By comparison, the big four superstores employed 800,000 people against a turnover of around £76bn. This equates to £42,000 turnover per member of staff in the convenience store sector, versus £95,000 turnover per member of staff in superstores.

I can appreciate that the councillors are just trying to do what they were elected for but from summing up the evidence (of which there is plenty), I do not believe a supermarket in Arbroath would be a sensible thing for councillors and our business association to be promoting and I feel it would do more harm than good to the local economy and in turn, the choice we are afforded in the town.

Just so you understand this is in reply to an article which told us about local councillors trying to overturn plans to deny Asda access to the westway site in Arbroath. Both Tesco and Asda have been denied planning permission in Arbroath.

I think that the clone town phonomenon is definately a bad thing.

[AlanG]

The book Shopped by Joanna Blythman goes into detail of the net job losses from opening supermarkets.

I believe SuperMike! is reading it just now so he may want to chime in?

[Keerin]

I've been reading this:

Tescopoly

And I'm away to make a start on this:

Small is Beautiful: A Study of Economics as if People Mattered

[ArchFlameTera]

its a pity that a load of independent shops will end up (and have been ending up) closed.

Supermarkets are great for buying any sort of day to day stuff, which is incredibley handy and i dont have any complaints about them in fairly large cities/towns but in some smaller places it seems they almost completley take over, which is shit.

and i never go and buy stuff in town anymore. Whats the point? Its rare that anything will actually interest me in these chain stores as it is. Even if i want a new CD, its a desperate struggle to find anything i want in the shops in town. Its only a matter of time before everyone's shopping online and town centres are reserved for a few department stores and pubs/clubs.

Since smaller one off shops are generally for a niche market they are usually far more interesting!

[humndislocation]

(Talking of music stores) I don't know whether or not high-street music stores are sustainable, but I question the logic that no one would ever want to go into a music store when they can shop online.

A physical music store is a lot more convenient when you want something right away, if you want to browse, or if you can't be arsed going through the hassle of returning the item by mail if it happens to be faulty.

That said, (and probably destroying my argument), the vast majority of my music purchases are made online, since 90% of the time I can't find the stuff I want in high-street stores. When I do visit a music store, it's usually a second hand store like Grouchos, since the CDs sold in there are generally a lot more interesting to me.

With regards to supermarkets. People are generally pretty selfish nowadays, and also lead very busy lives. The convenience of having everything under one roof, and being able to get your shopping done quickly and cheaply, is always going to win out over the altruism of shopping at a local family business.

[ArchFlameTera]

Originally Posted by humndislocation

(Talking of music stores) I don't know whether or not high-street music stores are sustainable, but I question the logic that no one would ever want to go into a music store when they can shop online.

A physical music store is a lot more convenient when you want something right away, if you want to browse, or if you can't be arsed going through the hassle of returning the item by mail if it happens to be faulty.

That said, (and probably destroying my argument), the vast majority of my music purchases are made online, since 90% of the time I can't find the stuff I want in high-street stores. When I do visit a music store, it's usually a second hand store like Grouchos, since the CDs sold in there are generally a lot more interesting to me.

.

thats exactly what i think. It is easier and a lot better just picking up whatever you want, but there just isnt any CDs instore that i would buy. You can order them in, but thatll most likly take longer than an online order and will cost quite a bit more usually too!

[Keerin]

If you buy musioc on the high street, the cances are that the artist is getting next to nothing anyway. If you order straight from the label or the band at least there is a chance that they will get a bit more from the cd. I think the reasons you guys stated for music purchases is the same reason I hardlky buy clothes anymore. because everything is intended to appeal to the masses it doesn't cater for my tastes, hence all the clothes are pretty shit imo.

There are alternatives for grocery shopping, but like Bryan has said, people are selfish and "too busy". The fact that they are too busy is something I want to look into more because I think that most people don;t need to be as busy as they are.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by Keerin

There are alternatives for grocery shopping, but like Bryan has said, people are selfish and "too busy". The fact that they are too busy is something I want to look into more because I think that most people don;t need to be as busy as they are.

I've heard good things about Amazon.co.uk: No Time: Stress and the Crisis of Modern Life: Books: Heather Menzies but haven't read it yet

(pimping books like mad today)

[*Lyndsey*]

(This is in regards to clothes shops) Its very clear you are all guys when none of you mention the fun of shopping in town

I can spend hours wandering each and every bloody shop in the centre looking for a nice outfit, pair of shoes, sunglasses, whatever. I dont get bored. I can go in and out several times until Im certain what I want. Sometimes I buy stuff just for sake of buying something.

My boyfriend absolutely hates me when I do this, so I tend to go with some girlfriends/gay friends, because its good to get a second opinion.

Shopping online to me is absolute hell. I cant try on stuff over the internet. My feet sometimes like to waver between a 7, 6 and an 8 so fuck buying shoes online. Same with clothes, I'll go between a 12, 10 or 14 depending on where to shop and how many burgers Ive ate that week hehe. I would only really buy DVD's or computer games off the net.

In regards to food shopping online - no. fucking. way! I would never buy my groceries from Tesco.com or what have you. HOW BORING. the best thing about food shopping is seeing something on the shelf you forgot you needed, or last minute changing your mind what you want for tea. And they sometimes give you an alternative if what you wants not there? How shit is that. Knowing my luck I'd end up with no shopping, because you can refuse alternative's eh? I can understand some people have to use this service because they live far from Tesco's, but in this day and age, and in this town for that matter, where there is hmmm 2 Tesco in reach of my house alone....why would you want to?

I think being female and all, I just love shopping full stop. I'll never substitute online for the real thing.

[ArchFlameTera]

and my girlfriend is exactly the same.

But yea, i just get very quickly bored and want to do something more interesting when i happen to be with her when shes shopping!

[RiseAgainst]

i recently watched the Wal*Mart DVD which was in part good, but also in some parts pretty sloppy, one sided and biased (think Michael Moore's style)

I would never buy my grocieries online, sometimes i go to Tesco, sometimes Somerfields, i mix and match offers that are going on and sometimes pick stuff up cheap out the reduced sections. I dont however go to local greengrocers and buy fresh vegetables and stuff, if the choice was closer to me and at the same price, i might.

In regards to buying music, yeah it can be better online, i only ever buy 7inch vynals from HMV nowdays and the rest i get through Interpunk or via the bands themselves. Its mainly due to the pricing however, and seeing shops like Fopp disappear shows how hard online shopping can damage the high street.

My girlfriend also loves spending time in town shoe shopping etc and i agree with Lyndsey's point about being able to check if things fit, and also for convinience of returns should there be any problems...

Kieran, i dont understand why local's want a big multi-store to open, if the majoruty of what people need can be bought locally why change? Although did see Penn & Teller's Bullshit! episode on Wal*Mart where they refused planning permission on a store somewhere in Michigan i think and there wasnt any stores anywhere near by to do the job it would have done, that to me is stupid but yet if there is exisiting amineties in place, why change?

I admit ive become very reliant on the internet for clothing these days but mainly because whats available in the local area is either not to my taste or over priced, could some independent shops being hurting themselves in the long run by overcharging (compared to online stores) because they are unique?