Not in our name... what a joke.

[XerXes]

War crime? Define that statement. What EXACTLY is a war crime?

If you can give a good definition as recognized by international governing bodies; examples found in international law and solidified through treaty then perhaps we could discuss what you have posted in response here, but until then you are nothing but a puppet of the liberal media.

Surely, if war crimes had been committed by Blair et al, the ICC would seriously be investigating the issue. But the fact remains that the Hague is NOT looking at any of this so your opinions fall on deaf ears.

The fact that WMD has yet to be uncovered is far from conclusive evidence that there are none to be found in Iraq. That is myopic at best and a poor example of logical thought. It is impossible to win an argument on such ideas.

[Jay-Arsey]

war crime
n.
Any of various crimes, such as genocide or the mistreatment of prisoners of war, committed during a war and considered in violation of the conventions of warfare.

Prisoners have been tortured by americn and british soldiers. Psychologically and physically. This is a fact, there is photo graphic evidence and various witnesses and accounts.

I love the fact that you suggest that if there was a crime then it would be being investigated. What a closed mind view, if you look in the past everytime the UN have decided to punish America for its illegal actions in various wars the US have not accepted it.

If you assume everything unjust will go punished then you are using flawed logic yourself. The US is a world super power and a rogue state, as such it feels it does not have to follow UN laws.

I agree that it is not conclusive evidence that there are no WMD I do believe that if any are found then it will be highly likely that they will be planted by the US. But this is a personal believe only based on my view of previous actions by the US.

But I do find it amusing that the reason for the whole start of the war has no proof of any kind. Not to mention that it wasnt supported by the majority of this country. Yet the Government shows us again how its citizens will allow it to act alone and oppose our views annd all will be forgiven.

[XerXes]

Do you have proof or are you simply regurgitating speculation? If YOU have PROOF, submit it. Send it to me and I will forward it to associates of mine.

I served in the US Army for over 12 years and consider the “torture” accusations just that. IF, and that is a big IF it happen as it has been reported (meaning there hasn’t been any doctoring of the account or misrepresentation but purely facts), I have no doubt that those responsible will be convicted.

Ever heard of Fort Leavenworth, KS? It’s a federal military prison where soldiers (and some civilians) who commit crimes serve out their sentence. I don’t know what world you live in, but to act like the U.S. doesn’t have leaders who are willing to stand up against evil is a load of shit.

Get off your high horse for a minute and consider the elements that we (US/UK) were and are fighting against. Your view of torture and my view (and the UCMJ) may simply not be the same in this sense. Physical torture is easy to identify (for the most part) but psychological… come on. What are the parameters you are using here?

And how often exactly has the US been in a war where the “UN” wanted to punish us for our actions? Name a few solid examples. And in terms of the UN, as if it mattered as an organization (it is composed of murders, terrorists, dictators, and the like), who cares what they think? Sure, individual soldiers (in all armed forces worldwide) do stupid, inhumane, and criminal things during war. Try one on for size and you will not be the same person I assure you. However, if you get a splinter you are not a piece of wood. That is, these men are nearly always held to account. There are good men in the US Army and in the British Army too; I know many of them. They will not stand by and allow such things to go unpunished. BUT...


The US (and UK) is a sovereign state that is not required to answer to anyone despite what you think. The US is responsible for its own actions and has well established check-and-balance systems in place that supercede virtually every other constitutional government in the world. That is a fact. But you don’t know much about that or what the US is really like. You are posting opinions here that you have learned through the media and in conversations with your friends rather than having lived in the US. It is easy to say what you think, but that doesn’t mean you know what you are saying.

Have you read the UN charter? When you say the UN wanted to punish the US for war crimes but the US refused to accept it, then name a real example. But you can’t. In fact, the best you will get are Article 51 issues – if that! Find me a Chapter 6 violation and we can talk. But until then, you clearly don’t know what you are talking about. When was the last time you took a class on international law of warfare? How about a art and science of war study? These kinds of foundational classes are important. If nothing else they provide you a solid ground to argue from. Otherwise you’re just talking out your pie hole.

I appreciate you voicing your thoughts; that is great. And I agree with you that IF the US acts in ways in which they should be held to account (By the UN et al) then they should be. But just because some liberal newspaper journalists says that they have does not mean it is true. Most of the people who talk about this stuff don’t actually know anything.

The US is a world super power without a doubt. Thank God! A rogue state… to who? The UN? Please. I hate to sound rude, but we own the UN. It is on US soil. We started the UN. We fund the UN. Without the US, there will be no UN. Get over it and deal with the facts.

What you don’t understand is that we do not have to answer to a group of “leaders” who are corrupt murders and dictators who wouldn’t know democracy if it bit them in the ass. Hell, I don’t even want to be in Iraq, but we are there now so lets do some good. I think we should let countries who mismanage their affairs fall on their face.

You say the US doesn’t follow “UN Laws”… really? Which ones EXACTLY? Are we talking about security resolutions that are chapter 51, chapter 6, or chapter 7? Are they binding resolutions? The UN doesn’t make “law” my friend… It isn’t a world legislative branch. Get your facts straight!

Here… answer this question for me: Where does international law come from? Hmmm… this should be good.

I am glad you agree with the “no conclusive evidence” either way with regard to WMD. But to say that the US is going to plant it sounds great for conspiracy theorists, but just isn’t realistic. But I am sure that you will continue to believe that fantasy because it suits your views. Thank you for admitting that it is a personal view… that’s an excellent start! But if you think that the “US” is like that I would encourage you to learn more about US. Yes, there are dicks out there who are in government… but most of us do everything we can to get rid of them.

You are right in saying that the “reasons” used to “convince” the government to go to war was ridiculous. The truth is we didn’t need WMD to enter into Iraq. I personally would have played the Security Council’s resolution card. By all accounts, the US had every “legal” right to go in without the WMD issue. Some very high-placed legal authorities have argued that case quite effectively. But others disagree. Personally, I went to law school and I support the view. I also firmly believe that in time we will “find” the evidence we need. I hope. But, it isn’t necessary.

You may not have agreed with the war. And that is okay. You are entitled to that. However, I disagree and realize that there is a need sometimes to sacrifice in order to assure security globally.

It’s been nice posting with you. Take care.

XerXes

[Jay-Arsey]

Some dicks? I hope ur refering to the president (I am sniggering whilst writing this) The most powerful man in the world was elected unlawfully in the most humorous and entertaining election in history.

As for facts...you want facts read a few noam chomsky books and tell me that the US dont regularly defy UN resolutions. U want specific examples? Not a problem when I've finished work I'll go home get u all the facts and figures I've read.

Want specific evidence about torture of Iraqi prisoners of war?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/s...968071,00.html

Also http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/925362.asp (although this is only alleged)

You can tell me all about how iraq doesnt have democracy but the UK lost democracy when Tony Blair went to war with your unelected president. The majority of people were against the war. 2 million people marched in london against the war. Our leader ignored us, not only that but the media largely ignored us. A huge attack against Anti war protesters started. A propaganda campain "Support our Troops" the anti war protesters were support teh troops...They wanted the home...out of an immoral war, out of danger and back to their familys, not out killing men women and children.

I'll bring you my evidence later.

[XerXes]

Bush lost the popular vote; not the Electoral College. Like it or not.

Regarding torture: the best you could do is send me one example by UK troops and an allegation? I rest my point. Real evidence not speculation, conjecture, or blown-up hype. I asked for unequivocal proof to support your claims. If you make a claim and cannot do this then you credibility is immediately undermined.

I thought you would be worth debating with, but I have no time for people like you’re your arguments are emotional drivel without any foundation whatsoever. Don’t bother posting anymore “evidence” since you barely even addressed my direct questions – Oh, that’s right… because you can’t.

I will not be responding to your tripe anymore; maybe someone else will bite.

[Talcum]

Basically, you are american, you are on their side. Not everyone is. I'm sure you are very knowledgable and you seem very interested in this particular subject.

I freely admit that I don't know much about the things you have been talking about in your very, very long posts. However, you have seemed to miss the fact that people don't like how america can do whatever it wants. You say, at what point do we decide to make a preemptive strike against iraq. Well, try being in the iraqi government. At what point do you stop trying to build weapons to protect your country/deter others from attacking you? At what point do you bend over and and allow the influence of a distant country which stands for everything you despise take over your way of life.

I'm not trying to say that they should have been pursuing WMDs and I don't wish to argue with you over any of this. I think the war was inevitable and is part of how the world and humans operate and always will.

Also, I don't think it's too unrealistic when people say "it's all about oil". That's just what people say, they mean that it's part of americas plan to cement themselves into an unassailable position of power. Fair enough, as you pointed out that's what countries do. However that doesn't neccesarily make it right and definately doesn't mean people will like it.

You ask for unquestionable proof of human rights abuse by us and uk soldiers. Well, i say give proof that there hasn't been. You see it's all about which side you are on. You are set on the side you were born on and I am too. I just speculate about peoples motives. I find it interesting. Peace.

[XerXes]

Fair enough; your points are noted and I agree with you in principle.

[Becca Bomb]

xerxes - you sound like tory boy from harry enfield. Which amercian news site did you copy and paste this brainwashed crap from?

[andysoa]

aye very true
why is america allowed to bully the world .Its not like they dont have nuclear weapons.