National service

[RiseAgainst]

i think National Service should be brought back, it would help combat the ever growing obesity issues and perhaps reduce the general yobbish culture, by giving them something to do.

[LesMts]

Originally Posted by RiseAgainst

i think National Service should be brought back, it would help combat the ever growing obesity issues and perhaps reduce the general yobbish culture, by giving them something to do.

Aye, me too. It would also helb to curb this sense of entitlement and selfishness that seems to be rapidly becoming part of the national psyche, where people are much more aware of their rights than their responsibilities and the system seems to pander to that.
I wouldn't like to see mandatory military service, but the system they have in most of western Europe where there's both a military and a civil option seems to work quite well.

[humndislocation]

The concept of national service gives me libertarian rage. I strongly disagree with the idea of the government being able to compel people to serve against their will (civil or military).

If someone wants to do civil or military service, then that's their prerogative, in no way should the government have the right to force it on people. At the end of the day, that's a year of someone's life. How they spend that year is up to them, not the government.

[RiseAgainst]

Originally Posted by humndislocation

If someone wants to do civil or military service, then that's their prerogative, in no way should the government have the right to force it on people. At the end of the day, that's a year of someone's life. How they spend that year is up to them, not the government.

so if a 12-year old decided they didn't want to attend school any more, you'd support them? After all its their time, how dare anyone force them into something they do not wish to do.

Same with the people who refuse to get a job and live off the dole, its their right to do so....right?

[AlanG]

yeah last quarter a quarter of a million extra people refused to get a job. All national service would do is the same role as new deal etc, massage unemployment figures to have them not appear in the stats and give more propoganda to kids to go off and die for the state.

National service

[humndislocation]

Originally Posted by RiseAgainst

so if a 12-year old decided they didn't want to attend school any more, you'd support them? After all its their time, how dare anyone force them into something they do not wish to do.

We don't let 12 year olds leave school, because they are too young to make an educated decision to leave school. A 16 year old is old enough to make an educated decision to leave school, which is why we don't force people to go to school after the age of 16.

Same with the people who refuse to get a job and live off the dole, its their right to do so....right?

That's not even remotely comparable. If someone is claiming unemployment benefit, it's reasonable to expect them to get a job.

It's not reasonable to expect someone to be forced to spend a year doing volunteer work, or army service, simply because they've hit the age of 18. In my opinion, forcing people to do this is a gross violation of their personal freedoms.

[Curate]

I must admit that I would probably be in favour of a year's national service. I know that my teenage self would hate me for it, but I do believe it would have real merits. Also, in an odd way it might serve as a male rite of passage. After all, what is acceptably "male" these days? If rugby represents the pinnacle of modern masculinity, I despair.

I think national service might provide a physical and an intellectual challenge to those willing to embrace it.

[Schmurgle]

I think if national service were to be introduced it would be extremely unfair for those people who simply aren't suited to school and when they leave are undecided as to what they want to do. I'm not sure national service would help in that decision. It seems like a way to punish those who aren't academic enough or that come from a stable enough background to have the support and encouragement to go for what they want to do in terms of pursuing a career. I find that a little bit sad. Also, it seems a bit sexist if national service was male only as not only do women make up a section of the army, they also are involved in yobbish behaviour!

[BlackofSic]

Originally Posted by RiseAgainst

i think National Service should be brought back, it would help combat the ever growing obesity issues and perhaps reduce the general yobbish culture, by giving them something to do.

Whilst you're at it, would you like to create some enforced labour camps? Should we share some of our wealth with the state?

Nah, fuck it, let's just remove all choice from the world and shape it in your own image without freedom to choose.

Fuck yeah.

[LesMts]

Originally Posted by BlackofSic

Should we share some of our wealth with the state?

We already do!

[Keerin]

I'd be against national service as I see it as a way to reinforce nationalism while hiding unemployment figures. It is the least creative and imaginative solution - an easy way out.

[RiseAgainst]

Originally Posted by Schmurgle

I think if national service were to be introduced it would be extremely unfair for those people who simply aren't suited to school and when they leave are undecided as to what they want to do. I'm not sure national service would help in that decision. It seems like a way to punish those who aren't academic enough or that come from a stable enough background to have the support and encouragement to go for what they want to do in terms of pursuing a career. I find that a little bit sad. Also, it seems a bit sexist if national service was male only as not only do women make up a section of the army, they also are involved in yobbish behaviour!

I would hope it would be for both sexes, and it isn't JUST shooting, you could also if deemed academic enough do courses based around a chosen profession to be added as a next level to GCSE. Id only be for it if it was shaped like a further tier in the education system. It wouldn't mask unemployment figures as it'd be deemed education, whether in a physical sense, or a mental one.

[Keerin]

That's what forced further education does Martin, it is easier to shove people into further education schemes than it is to have to explain why you have large unemployment figures.

Also, you can't force people to learn. A lot of people will buck against the system, thus simply containing the problem rather than solving it.

[RiseAgainst]

lets face reality, even with the merits it has it would never get implemented anyways so its kinda of a pointless discussion.

Are unemployment figures not based off 18+ anyways?

[AlanG]

no, they are based on those who are claiming unemployment benefit. It would be simpler to have those eligible to work - those who have 1 job but that would be being honest.

I know someone who worked in an unemployment support centre in an area of Glasgow. The official figure for the area was 12% unemployed. They did a door to door survey and found that 12% of people who were of working age had a job. The rest were punted on New Deal schemes etc so didn't appear on the figures.