France :(

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 11:37 AM

Anyone else totally shocked by whats going on there? I knew the NF was pretty popular in the south but they took the entire south and east coasts in the first round.

Now everyone will know why i get pissed when I moan that they dont go and vote, lets fuckers like these get attention and popularity, if it can happen there it can happen here. The BNP used exactly the same tactics in Sighthill "the immigrants are to blame for the unemployment and poverty" The Nazis used it in '33 and Mussolini in '22. i know some of you lot wont have voted before and probly aint interested in politics but just read whats happenning in france just now and what it would mean then spend 5minutes at elections to avoid it, it doesnt take much.

Alan 'too pissed off to work' G

kj · 23rd April 2002, 01:13 PM

yeah. its pretty scary. i was looking at the british national front website and they are all celebrating this. i dont think he is gonna win somehow, but even still, the fact that it is between the current president and a Hitler wannabe is really scary. Besides, imagine if that happened over here.

When are the final elections over there again?
I think there are gonna be some violent demonstrations nearer the election between pro-left and extreme right followers.

kj · 23rd April 2002, 01:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KJ:
yeah. its pretty scary. i was looking at the british national front website and they are all celebrating this. i dont think he is gonna win somehow, but even still, the fact that it is between the current president and a Hitler wannabe is really scary. Besides, imagine if that happened over here.

When are the final elections over there again?
I think there are gonna be some violent demonstrations nearer the election between pro-left and extreme right followers.<hr /></blockquote>I dont think there is too much to worry about at the moment, but its definately a warning sign to the rest of Europe. Especially since this Le Penis guy wants to seperate France from the EU and go their own way, and banning imigrants and deporting immigrants already there. Sounds a bit medieval to me. I dont think even he expected to be at the final hurdle of the race and they are prolly just as surprised as the rest of us are, i think they even said they didnt expect to win but it was a point making vote; that they are there and that they wont be going anywhere for the foreseable future.

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 01:23 PM

The elections are May 5th I think.

the most scary part is that between them the two final candidates only got 40% of the vote, so less than the majority voted for these two combined but these are the two who get to be PM. Democracy thats even more fecked up than the US's college vote system.

kj · 23rd April 2002, 01:28 PM

i dunno dude. i dont think you can get more fucked than the US system. i think over there, the college electorates have the power to over rule the peoples vote. at least i was told that. Florida was a good example of how not to do an election. Apparently the reason for this is the people of America dont really know who they are voting for and so the powers that be make the minds up for them by screening the votes and deciding who should win rather than who got the most votes, so really, Gore probably got more votes overall, but the people behind the screen thought Bush should win and so cheated Gore out of a Presidency.

Meanwhile in France, it looks like no one really cares. The people who seemed to care the most are those that are eager for evil to take front seat and those who support the current president. Have the percentage turnout been around 70-80%, i doubt Le Pen would have finished second. He was 2% ahead of the third place guy, who now, apparently has quit politics altogether. But its cool how all the left wingers and some right wingers are joining together to defeat Le Pen.

kj · 23rd April 2002, 01:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Alan G:
The elections are May 5th I think.

the most scary part is that between them the two final candidates only got 40% of the vote, so less than the majority voted for these two combined but these are the two who get to be PM. Democracy thats even more fecked up than the US's college vote system.<hr /></blockquote>Dude, go to your profile and check your private messages. i just sent you one.

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 01:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KJ:
i dunno dude. i dont think you can get more fucked than the US system. i think over there, the college electorates have the power to over rule the peoples vote. at least i was told that. Florida was a good example of how not to do an election. Apparently the reason for this is the people of America dont really know who they are voting for and so the powers that be make the minds up for them by screening the votes and deciding who should win rather than who got the most votes, so really, Gore probably got more votes overall, but the people behind the screen thought Bush should win and so cheated Gore out of a Presidency.
<hr /></blockquote>how the US works is that the party that wins most votes in each region counts as having ALL the votes. Kind of like if Labour won 11 of 21 council seats in Dundee (not sure actual number) then they would actually control all 21 with teh other parties controlling none.
This looks like even tho its undemoctratic it would even itself up, but the college areas are cut up into biased regions. Say each had 10million votes for example and theres 3 college states. Each state has 20seats on parliament
state1 - 1million vote for labour - 9mil for SNP
state2 - 5.5million labour - 4.5million for SNP
state3 - 5.5million labour - 4.5million for SNP

in this case
SNP got 18million votes of 30million
labour got 12million votes of 30million

but because labour won two states(20 seats) and SNP won one state(10seats) labour would be in charge.

Thats how the USA system works, the glorious land of democracy *sick into bag*

kj · 23rd April 2002, 02:01 PM

That is a big dodgy. So basically, if a party one alot of the smaller states and the other party one a few of the huge states. Even though they would have a huge number of votes, they would loose the election because the other party won the most number of states? Damn.

I think the reason for this would be so that the majority of states would have the government they had elected for, so that the majority of states are happy because those states that voted otherwise would be in the minority and so they are not important. thats what is seems like. Almost as messed up as the premier league split up...

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 02:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KJ:
That is a big dodgy. So basically, if a party one alot of the smaller states and the other party one a few of the huge states. Even though they would have a huge number of votes, they would loose the election because the other party won the most number of states? Damn.
<hr /></blockquote>yeah its all fiddled to do with area per population etc, so basically all the southern states get more representatives, so winning X votes there is worth more than X votes in the east or west coasts. Thats how Dubya got ahead, plus his relation was in charge of teh investigation in Florida, where most people demanded recounts and re-votes etc.

Dan_Chug · 23rd April 2002, 03:31 PM

its bad stuff that happening but when you look at it, the people of France have been messed around so much they dont know what to do, i mean they dont have much of a choice. On one hand they have Chirac who theyve taken enough shit from for now, the guys a waste of time. What it seems they've done it use their vote as a protest, they dont WANT Chirac, so they're gonna vote for the fascists and see what people tink of it. For us, as my friend put it today, it would be a bit like voting: Tories or BNP. Not much of a choice is it? Dont know what i'd do if i was french...

kj · 23rd April 2002, 03:35 PM

Its definately a bit scary. But just remember, when was the last time France sent their army to kick ass? I'd say we are pretty safe in that dept, so if the fascists do get into power, we'll be looking at a modern day Nazi Germany, only this time, their army will be fairies. on a serious note though, if what you say is true Dan, and the French people dont want Chirac in charge, that leaves them in a very awkard predicament? What would be most damaging to their country? A president who they say has let them down, or an extreme right-wing fascist who is going to pull them out of the EU and back into the dark ages?

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 03:46 PM

not only puling out of europe but the whole "send immigrants back where they came from" line. plus France would get sanctions against it similar to Austria(who also have a Fascist party in joint power), tourism and trade would die overnight. Israel has told Jews in france to move to Israel fearing for their safety. Fascists in power means a hell of a lot more than just pulling out of europs, just think, government sanctioned discrimination against blacks, jews, gays, disabled, anyone else that things can be blamed on or who is seen as sub-human

AlanG · 23rd April 2002, 04:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dan_Chug:
i mean they dont have much of a choice. On one hand they have Chirac who theyve taken enough shit from for now, the guys a waste of time. What it seems they've done it use their vote as a protest, they dont WANT Chirac, so they're gonna vote for the fascists and see what people tink of it. For us, as my friend put it today, it would be a bit like voting: Tories or BNP. Not much of a choice is it? Dont know what i'd do if i was french...<hr /></blockquote>theres always a choice, there were 16 other candidates? If I were given a choice of 16candidates and dindt want to use my vote for the two main parties but use it as a protest, I would have 13 candidates, then a choice of a spoilt paper, then a choice of not voting, THEN and ONLY then a vote for fascists.

"I did it as protest"
"i dont really support rascism i did it cos of their other policies"
etc etc are excuses used by weak scum. If you vote for Nazis at least have the balls to do it cos you believe in them. Reminds me of the Kinnock campaign, all the exit polls showed that Labour was miles ahead cos Tory voters said they were voting Labour cos they were ashamed of voting Tory. All these people on the news claiming they did it as protest etc.

The NF have been on the rise in the south of France for years now. Theyve got two attacks:

The immigrants are all uneducated and dont add to society
the immigrants are stealing all the jobs

shows their logic, immigrants are all stupid but have more chance of getting a job than you, work that one out.

23rd April 2002, 11:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	France :( Anyone else totally shocked by whats going on there? I knew the NF was pretty popular in the south but they took the entire south and east coasts in the first round. Now everyone will know why i get pissed when I moan that they dont go and vote, lets fuckers like these get attention and popularity, if it can happen there it can happen here. The BNP used exactly the same tactics in Sighthill "the immigrants are to blame for the unemployment and poverty" The Nazis used it in '33 and Mussolini in '22. i know some of you lot wont have voted before and probly aint interested in politics but just read whats happenning in france just now and what it would mean then spend 5minutes at elections to avoid it, it doesnt take much. Alan 'too pissed off to work' G __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

23rd April 2002, 01:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	yeah. its pretty scary. i was looking at the british national front website and they are all celebrating this. i dont think he is gonna win somehow, but even still, the fact that it is between the current president and a Hitler wannabe is really scary. Besides, imagine if that happened over here. When are the final elections over there again? I think there are gonna be some violent demonstrations nearer the election between pro-left and extreme right followers. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 01:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KJ: <strong>yeah. its pretty scary. i was looking at the british national front website and they are all celebrating this. i dont think he is gonna win somehow, but even still, the fact that it is between the current president and a Hitler wannabe is really scary. Besides, imagine if that happened over here. When are the final elections over there again? I think there are gonna be some violent demonstrations nearer the election between pro-left and extreme right followers.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dont think there is too much to worry about at the moment, but its definately a warning sign to the rest of Europe. Especially since this Le Penis guy wants to seperate France from the EU and go their own way, and banning imigrants and deporting immigrants already there. Sounds a bit medieval to me. I dont think even he expected to be at the final hurdle of the race and they are prolly just as surprised as the rest of us are, i think they even said they didnt expect to win but it was a point making vote; that they are there and that they wont be going anywhere for the foreseable future. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 01:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	The elections are May 5th I think. the most scary part is that between them the two final candidates only got 40% of the vote, so less than the majority voted for these two combined but these are the two who get to be PM. Democracy thats even more fecked up than the US's college vote system. __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

23rd April 2002, 01:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	i dunno dude. i dont think you can get more fucked than the US system. i think over there, the college electorates have the power to over rule the peoples vote. at least i was told that. Florida was a good example of how not to do an election. Apparently the reason for this is the people of America dont really know who they are voting for and so the powers that be make the minds up for them by screening the votes and deciding who should win rather than who got the most votes, so really, Gore probably got more votes overall, but the people behind the screen thought Bush should win and so cheated Gore out of a Presidency. Meanwhile in France, it looks like no one really cares. The people who seemed to care the most are those that are eager for evil to take front seat and those who support the current president. Have the percentage turnout been around 70-80%, i doubt Le Pen would have finished second. He was 2% ahead of the third place guy, who now, apparently has quit politics altogether. But its cool how all the left wingers and some right wingers are joining together to defeat Le Pen. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 01:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Alan G: <strong>The elections are May 5th I think. the most scary part is that between them the two final candidates only got 40% of the vote, so less than the majority voted for these two combined but these are the two who get to be PM. Democracy thats even more fecked up than the US's college vote system.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude, go to your profile and check your private messages. i just sent you one. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 01:54 PM	#7 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KJ: <strong>i dunno dude. i dont think you can get more fucked than the US system. i think over there, the college electorates have the power to over rule the peoples vote. at least i was told that. Florida was a good example of how not to do an election. Apparently the reason for this is the people of America dont really know who they are voting for and so the powers that be make the minds up for them by screening the votes and deciding who should win rather than who got the most votes, so really, Gore probably got more votes overall, but the people behind the screen thought Bush should win and so cheated Gore out of a Presidency. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">how the US works is that the party that wins most votes in each region counts as having ALL the votes. Kind of like if Labour won 11 of 21 council seats in Dundee (not sure actual number) then they would actually control all 21 with teh other parties controlling none. This looks like even tho its undemoctratic it would even itself up, but the college areas are cut up into biased regions. Say each had 10million votes for example and theres 3 college states. Each state has 20seats on parliament state1 - 1million vote for labour - 9mil for SNP state2 - 5.5million labour - 4.5million for SNP state3 - 5.5million labour - 4.5million for SNP in this case SNP got 18million votes of 30million labour got 12million votes of 30million but because labour won two states(20 seats) and SNP won one state(10seats) labour would be in charge. Thats how the USA system works, the glorious land of democracy sick into bag __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

23rd April 2002, 02:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	That is a big dodgy. So basically, if a party one alot of the smaller states and the other party one a few of the huge states. Even though they would have a huge number of votes, they would loose the election because the other party won the most number of states? Damn. I think the reason for this would be so that the majority of states would have the government they had elected for, so that the majority of states are happy because those states that voted otherwise would be in the minority and so they are not important. thats what is seems like. Almost as messed up as the premier league split up... __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 02:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KJ: <strong>That is a big dodgy. So basically, if a party one alot of the smaller states and the other party one a few of the huge states. Even though they would have a huge number of votes, they would loose the election because the other party won the most number of states? Damn. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yeah its all fiddled to do with area per population etc, so basically all the southern states get more representatives, so winning X votes there is worth more than X votes in the east or west coasts. Thats how Dubya got ahead, plus his relation was in charge of teh investigation in Florida, where most people demanded recounts and re-votes etc. __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

23rd April 2002, 03:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dan_Chug Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 214	its bad stuff that happening but when you look at it, the people of France have been messed around so much they dont know what to do, i mean they dont have much of a choice. On one hand they have Chirac who theyve taken enough shit from for now, the guys a waste of time. What it seems they've done it use their vote as a protest, they dont WANT Chirac, so they're gonna vote for the fascists and see what people tink of it. For us, as my friend put it today, it would be a bit like voting: Tories or BNP. Not much of a choice is it? Dont know what i'd do if i was french...

23rd April 2002, 03:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,935 Band: A band of merry men	Its definately a bit scary. But just remember, when was the last time France sent their army to kick ass? I'd say we are pretty safe in that dept, so if the fascists do get into power, we'll be looking at a modern day Nazi Germany, only this time, their army will be fairies. on a serious note though, if what you say is true Dan, and the French people dont want Chirac in charge, that leaves them in a very awkard predicament? What would be most damaging to their country? A president who they say has let them down, or an extreme right-wing fascist who is going to pull them out of the EU and back into the dark ages? __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

23rd April 2002, 03:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	not only puling out of europe but the whole "send immigrants back where they came from" line. plus France would get sanctions against it similar to Austria(who also have a Fascist party in joint power), tourism and trade would die overnight. Israel has told Jews in france to move to Israel fearing for their safety. Fascists in power means a hell of a lot more than just pulling out of europs, just think, government sanctioned discrimination against blacks, jews, gays, disabled, anyone else that things can be blamed on or who is seen as sub-human __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

23rd April 2002, 04:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,366	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dan_Chug: <strong>i mean they dont have much of a choice. On one hand they have Chirac who theyve taken enough shit from for now, the guys a waste of time. What it seems they've done it use their vote as a protest, they dont WANT Chirac, so they're gonna vote for the fascists and see what people tink of it. For us, as my friend put it today, it would be a bit like voting: Tories or BNP. Not much of a choice is it? Dont know what i'd do if i was french...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">theres always a choice, there were 16 other candidates? If I were given a choice of 16candidates and dindt want to use my vote for the two main parties but use it as a protest, I would have 13 candidates, then a choice of a spoilt paper, then a choice of not voting, THEN and ONLY then a vote for fascists. "I did it as protest" "i dont really support rascism i did it cos of their other policies" etc etc are excuses used by weak scum. If you vote for Nazis at least have the balls to do it cos you believe in them. Reminds me of the Kinnock campaign, all the exit polls showed that Labour was miles ahead cos Tory voters said they were voting Labour cos they were ashamed of voting Tory. All these people on the news claiming they did it as protest etc. The NF have been on the rise in the south of France for years now. Theyve got two attacks: The immigrants are all uneducated and dont add to society the immigrants are stealing all the jobs shows their logic, immigrants are all stupid but have more chance of getting a job than you, work that one out. __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04