Great Debate - What is a 'right'?

kj · 1st July 2003, 11:28 AM

the term is used in many instances, including 'the right to life' in the debate over abortion. But i want to know what you people think constitutes a right.

You have the 'right' to reply.

AlanG · 1st July 2003, 02:17 PM

I consider a right to be something so basic and fundamental that without it you are prevented from living your life to the full extent of your potential. that means I think people have the right to live free, with no barriers to education or in the workplace because of race/religion/sex/sexuality etc, free of torture and free to practice their own personal beliefs as long as they dont adversly affect anyone else (so gays should be allowed to marry but paedos should not be allowed to rape children for extreme examples), basically the European Convention on Human Rights with a few minor additions.

alien_syndm · 13th July 2003, 11:33 AM

If you talk in a non religious sense you don't have the right for anything. Awww you don't get a lawyer ? Tough shit, get over it. Awww you got murdered? Tough shit, only the strong survive.
You have to get religious before you start mentioning rights.

xdavidx · 13th July 2003, 12:08 PM

wha's a right? every 'hing's gonna be a'right!

a right is your entitlement, your perogative.

Misanthropy · 13th July 2003, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kj
But i want to know what you people think constitutes a right.

Do you mean like, give examples? Or define the term?

Fat Pete · 13th July 2003, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alien_syndm
You have to get religious before you start mentioning rights.

while religion may enter into the equation on issues like gay marriages etc, surely it's a moral issue, rather than a religious one? it's already been established that practically none of us on this board are religious, but i'm sure most believe we should have rights?

sorry if i misunderstood what you were trying to say.

alien_syndm · 13th July 2003, 03:18 PM

Perhaps a little, I maybe didn't put it very well. My point kinda is in a godless world why should you have the "right" to do and/or for anything ? Why should you be entitled to anything just for being alive ?

AlanG · 13th July 2003, 09:01 PM

"If you talk in a non religious sense you don't have the right for anything"

"My point kinda is in a godless world why should you have the "right" to do and/or for anything ?"

Then your points contradict. Buddism is a religion yet does not have any Gods. Why does a right have to depend on the existance of a God?

alien_syndm · 13th July 2003, 10:30 PM

Oh jesus wept to use a religios phrase, talk about being picky. Jedi is also a recognised religion in this country due to the amount of people that wrote it on their census, no gods in that either, or does master yoda count ? Majority of religions have a god, or some sort of god that sets out "rules". If not I too could be picky and call them life philosiphies.
If you follow the logical progression perhaps even you too can see my point. If I am alleged to commit a crime should I have the right to a fair trial ? Should I have the right to free education ? Should people have the right to vote for who they want to govern the country ? Should people have the right for anything at all ? If so, why ? If the answer is yes then it would be because we live in some sort of ordered society right ? In that case who is any person to dictate the rights of the individual ? One person may say you should have X right, and the other Y right. This is where the morality connection ties in.
Am I correct in saying you are an aethesit Alan G ? In which case what ever happens or doesn't happen to you is tough shit, if you start arguing "but I have the right to... " I could say fuck off no you don't, your opinion against mine, end of. And just cos alot of people may agree with your opinion doesn't make it right, oh whoops you can only have a personal right and wrong if you are an aetheist, silly me.

Misanthropy · 13th July 2003, 10:38 PM

So what you're saying is, without god, there is only anarchy? That's like saying without orange firehoses, the world will burn. There are other things to put out fires, you dig?

alien_syndm · 13th July 2003, 10:46 PM

What I am saying is without some sort of "higher" being what rights you should have, whats "right" and "wrong" is merely a matter of one person's opinion against another person's. Although I suppose you could argue it is that anyway from one person of X religion and another person of Y religion.

Misanthropy · 13th July 2003, 10:53 PM

There is a very simple phrase I like to keep in mind when such matters arise

my freedom ends when yours begins

alien_syndm · 13th July 2003, 10:57 PM

You can take our trees, but you'll never take our freedom !

AlanG · 14th July 2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alien_syndm
Oh jesus wept to use a religios phrase, talk about being picky. Jedi is also a recognised religion in this country due to the amount of people that wrote it on their census,

no its not, it was a hoax started on a website that said it would be for the Australian cencus that eventually got repeated here before our cencus, but it was nonsense, a huge joke.

Quote:

Majority of religions have a god, or some sort of god that sets out "rules". If not I too could be picky and call them life philosiphies.

The majority of religions have a God, that sets rules - fair enough, but generally its one man that then passes on these rules to other people "yes God said you should do X and not Y"

Quote:

If you follow the logical progression perhaps even you too can see my point. If I am alleged to commit a crime should I have the right to a fair trial ? Should I have the right to free education ? Should people have the right to vote for who they want to govern the country ? Should people have the right for anything at all ? If so, why ? If the answer is yes then it would be because we live in some sort of ordered society right ?
In that case who is any person to dictate the rights of the individual ? One person may say you should have X right, and the other Y right. This is where the morality connection ties in.

1st July 2003, 11:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
kj gimp Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 13,759 Band: A band of merry men	Great Debate - What is a 'right'? the term is used in many instances, including 'the right to life' in the debate over abortion. But i want to know what you people think constitutes a right. You have the 'right' to reply. __________________ This community cannot survive without your continued support. galleries \|\| links directory \|\| profiles \|\| wiki

1st July 2003, 02:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,339	I consider a right to be something so basic and fundamental that without it you are prevented from living your life to the full extent of your potential. that means I think people have the right to live free, with no barriers to education or in the workplace because of race/religion/sex/sexuality etc, free of torture and free to practice their own personal beliefs as long as they dont adversly affect anyone else (so gays should be allowed to marry but paedos should not be allowed to rape children for extreme examples), basically the European Convention on Human Rights with a few minor additions. __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

13th July 2003, 09:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
AlanG ModSword +5 of Editing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dundee Posts: 3,339	"If you talk in a non religious sense you don't have the right for anything" "My point kinda is in a godless world why should you have the "right" to do and/or for anything ?" Then your points contradict. Buddism is a religion yet does not have any Gods. Why does a right have to depend on the existance of a God? __________________ Ernie Ross - "I'm not a rent-a-quote MP" 10 Sep 04 Ernie Ross being a rent-a-quote MP 23 Jul 04

13th July 2003, 11:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
alien_syndm Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: dundee Posts: 1,435	If you talk in a non religious sense you don't have the right for anything. Awww you don't get a lawyer ? Tough shit, get over it. Awww you got murdered? Tough shit, only the strong survive. You have to get religious before you start mentioning rights.

13th July 2003, 12:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
xdavidx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glasgow. Posts: 6,997 Band: Spitelicker, LOLsquad.	wha's a right? every 'hing's gonna be a'right! a right is your entitlement, your perogative.

13th July 2003, 03:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
alien_syndm Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: dundee Posts: 1,435	Perhaps a little, I maybe didn't put it very well. My point kinda is in a godless world why should you have the "right" to do and/or for anything ? Why should you be entitled to anything just for being alive ?

13th July 2003, 10:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
alien_syndm Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: dundee Posts: 1,435	Oh jesus wept to use a religios phrase, talk about being picky. Jedi is also a recognised religion in this country due to the amount of people that wrote it on their census, no gods in that either, or does master yoda count ? Majority of religions have a god, or some sort of god that sets out "rules". If not I too could be picky and call them life philosiphies. If you follow the logical progression perhaps even you too can see my point. If I am alleged to commit a crime should I have the right to a fair trial ? Should I have the right to free education ? Should people have the right to vote for who they want to govern the country ? Should people have the right for anything at all ? If so, why ? If the answer is yes then it would be because we live in some sort of ordered society right ? In that case who is any person to dictate the rights of the individual ? One person may say you should have X right, and the other Y right. This is where the morality connection ties in. Am I correct in saying you are an aethesit Alan G ? In which case what ever happens or doesn't happen to you is tough shit, if you start arguing "but I have the right to... " I could say fuck off no you don't, your opinion against mine, end of. And just cos alot of people may agree with your opinion doesn't make it right, oh whoops you can only have a personal right and wrong if you are an aetheist, silly me.

13th July 2003, 10:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
Misanthropy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dundee Posts: 4,101	So what you're saying is, without god, there is only anarchy? That's like saying without orange firehoses, the world will burn. There are other things to put out fires, you dig?

13th July 2003, 10:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
alien_syndm Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: dundee Posts: 1,435	What I am saying is without some sort of "higher" being what rights you should have, whats "right" and "wrong" is merely a matter of one person's opinion against another person's. Although I suppose you could argue it is that anyway from one person of X religion and another person of Y religion.

13th July 2003, 10:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
Misanthropy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dundee Posts: 4,101	There is a very simple phrase I like to keep in mind when such matters arise my freedom ends when yours begins

13th July 2003, 10:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
alien_syndm Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: dundee Posts: 1,435	You can take our trees, but you'll never take our freedom !