Just somethin to read, major labels suck.

[youthcultureforsale]

Most people are under the mistaken assumption that the only real way to make money off of music is to sign a contract with a major label. This is an attempt to prove how extraordinarily fucked that notion is. No one will put you in debt quicker than a major label.

The myths behind the supposed wisdom attached to signing with a major label are easy to dispel. Most of these myths are not even the deliberate work of the labels themselves,as much as they are the assumptions that people have of rock stars and music preformers. In the artificial world of rock video and paparazzi, everyone is rich.

When one goes to an "alternative" concert, one is bound to see tour busses,groupies, roadies, techs, lighting engineers, sound engineers, stage props and endless supplies of guitars, basses, drum heads, sticks, strings and what not. The automatic impression is 1. the label is picking up the tab, and 2. the band is swimming in bucks.

Sorry, wrong answer but thanks for playing!

Separating fact from fiction,it is important to investigate what the majors say or imply and compare it to what they mean. By no means is it the same thing. They will tell you what you want to hear,but that isn't what will necessarily take place.

A common belief with most people is that majors will "stand behind" the band, provide tour support, do promo work, and so forth. All that is true, but the unspoken glitch is that it is paid for by the band, not the label.

A band on a major label is paid via royalties. For every record sold, they get a certain percentage, or points. Usually the royalties are in the nieghborhood of 10 to 15 points. Huge stars like Micheal Jackson, Madonna, or Guns and Roses can get near 30 points. There are numerous other factors involved and other opportunities for income. Some artists are on a salary instead of points. This guarantees them an income if the record should do poorly and in that case is a pretty good deal, but if the record really takes off, it is a disaster.

The label usually takes in 70 to 90 points less production costs, advertising, shipping,and miscellaneous expenses. The average cost of a single CD (including CD, mastering, printing, packaging, inserts, jewel box, and shrink wrapping) in a press of over 10,000 is around $1.50 per CD For a large release (over 100,000 pressed) the price drops considerably so that a single CD of say Nirvana's "In Utero" costs the label as little as 90 cents per unit, and in turn sells in a store for $12 to $16 plus tax.

Aside from production, advertising, and a few miscellaneous things, the rest of the expenses including promo CDs to publications and radio stations, promo packaging, recording costs, artwork, producers, engineers, and technical assistance,are the responsibility of the band. All the label does is act as a coordinater for the band. They arrange the promo's that get sent out and what goes in a promo package, but the band pays for it.

Usually, the method labels use to lure bands is to provide the band with an initial advance. This is a huge sum of money advanced to the band from their expected royalties. It is not given to the band,it is loaned to the band. Thus when you hear that Nirvana signed for a million bucks, or Urge Overkill signed for $250,000 or Helmet signed for $500,000, what that really means is that they were loaned that money from their cut of the royalties before the record is produced. This is where most bands get into serious trouble.

Say that you are in a band, you've got the typical problems of a band, and maybe your traveling to shows in a broken down van or a couple of cars. Suddenly, you have a cashiers cheque for $100,000 from the major label you just signed with. It seems about time to buy a real nice new van, or even a bus!

As long as all that money is lying around, it might also be nice to take a little of that money to buy some new equipment (assuming that like most bands, you dont get full instrument endorsement) and of course there are personal expenses, needs, wants.

After about 1 or 2 months after you've signed, its time to take those songs into the studio. Time to get cracking. Time to get fucked.

It is around now that the band find out its real expenses. The band, if they were well disiplined, might have 1/2 to 3/4 of their advance money left. This money must cover the following expenses in most contracts: manager's cut, legal fees, recording (including: producers fees, studio rental, engineer's fees, technical assistance, rental equipment, tape, mastering, etc.) video expenses (even though the band maybe contractually obligated by the label to do 1 or more videos, the band still picks up the tab, including: cameras, crew, pre-production costs, post-production costs, props, stage director's fee and so forth) album work, band photos, promo shots, promo material for tours, record stores, radio stations, clubs and industry people, all tour expenses, merchandise expenses, and endless miscellaneous expenses.

This is the responsibility of the band, yes the band. Obviously as bands rise in popularity, they inevitably make more money (or get less in debt) and when a band gets huge (filling arenas), they can re-negotiate contracts and force the label to pisk up recording costs, video shoots, etc. Thats great for them but not so wonderful for the average "alternative" band.

If you're thinking you can avoid all this by signing a better contract, forget it. Not only is the opportunity for improvement on the basic contract limited, it is also highly unlikely. Consider that bands like Superchunk, Jesus Lizard, Jawbreaker, Liz Phair, Tar, and Fugazi are about as large as you can get in the underground, and they would not get everything they wanted on a major label contract (assuming they would ever want one), what makes you think that you and your dinky little and could do better?

NO person or band in the industry has a contract that allows them complete artistic control. NO ONE. Major labels must protect their corporate interests, so if an artist was about to do something that would jeopardize the labels standing with another industry, corporation, politicion, etc, they must be able to take action. They have full veto powere over any aspect of an artists work.

Nirvana were refused permission to release "In Utero" with the production they wanted. Numerous other bands have had to cut song length, remove songs from records, change lyrics, alter album covers, or do other things that compromised their personal integrity. Even in videos, the label ahs full approval of the final product even though they did not pay for it's production.

A major label contract averages over 100 pages. This is a conrtact created by dozens of high priced laweys which is designed to make the label as much money as possible, which in turn means giving as little as they can to the band. The average person presented with such a contract would be utterly lost. It would be impossible for the laymen to understand over 100 pages of cross-referenced, complex legal jargon. It is safe to assume that the average band would be clueless, and in serious potential danger if they signed such a contract without a lawyer.

So the band hires a lawyer. Lets say its a cheap lawyer and He/she only gets about $50 an hour. How long would it take the lawyer to go over 100 pages carefully? Lets underestimate and say 10 hours. So in 10 hours, the lawyer finds the contract is not OK. That just cost the band $500.

On the other hand maybe the lawyer says the contract seems good and the band believes him. It is inconcievable that in a few hours a single low budget lawyer is goin to be able to see every potential liability, responsibility, and loophole present in a contract perfected over years buy some of the best lawyers in the country.

There are further technicalities, techniques, and methods used by the majors to play you like sucker. A&R reps (Artist and Repertoire) are a valuable tool in the industry. These are folks just like you. Their young, their hip, they know the bands you know, they dress like you, they talk like you. These folk are the buffer elite of the music industry.

A&R reps usually contact a band after reading about them in CMJ, Spin, Rolling Stone, or MRR. (If you think that the majors dont kepp an eye on the underground right at the source then you are extraordinarily naive).

When a label is interested in a band, a scout might come to check out 1 of their shows. If they are REALLY interested they will fly down to discuss stuff or fly the band to their offices to talk. The band will then talk to 1 of the rebellious young A&R reps who will convince the band what a great deal they are goin to get.

The band often fell at this point that life couldn't be better. The A&R rep was so cool He/she wasn't at all like a typical industry type! He/she is on our side.

Durong this meeting, the band might sign an innocent looking letter of intent or "deal memo" which states that the band and the label will come to some kind of contractual agreement at some point. This is a binding contract. It puts the band in a legal outhouse.

Basically, the band will be forced to sign a contract with that label,buy out of the agreement or break up. After signing this letter of intent, all intellectual, musical, and archly ideas of the band belong to the label. They cant release their own material by themselves. The deal memo does not expire, and the label has all the time and all the leverage. You can pretty well guess who is left holding the shitty side of the toilet paper.

[Degze]

look at the stone roses-they got somthing like £10000 each as they only made royalties of of vinal sales.
Whatch what you sign kids,get profesional help before puting pen to paper!

[youthcultureforsale]

part 2



Major labels hold the cards in terms of distribution and connections. It appears that majos labels can help you so much because they act as arrangers. Most of the things that major labels do for their bands is get them in the door. Sure, major labels will give you tour support, promo posters, and so forth, but remember that it is on your TAB, just like an independent.

The truth of the matter is that a band who wants to get a fair shake and make some money can only do this on an independent label. On a large independent label, you can still have the label put bucket loads of promo out, help you with your bookings, and all sorts of shit, and just like with the majors you pay for it. The difference is that you also have control over where it goes, and when it stops. On a major label you pick up the tab, but they make the decisions.

Independent labels as a general rule are also not interested in holding the band in some type of legal vice. An independent will let you sing about what you want to sing about. They aren't going to tell you that you must put a lime warning sticker on your CD, or that the cover is to graphic, that the lyrics are to anti-establishment, That the third song on the CD sucks so it's coming off, that you have to go to camelot music to do a promo, that you better have that video at their offices by next week, that you cant use a certain producer, that you have to tour with therapy?, whether you like it or not, or that you better get on your knees and start sucking.

With an independent, obviously the audience is smaller, thanks to the majors choke-hold on disribution, however the percentage that you make back off of what is sold is much larger. Independent labels rely on the underground to sell their records. If an independent wre to fuck over a band, the band will damage their reputation with the underground and the label will lose their audience. Fopr this reason it is in their best interest not to do such a thing.

Each band from the punk scene that signs to a major label has sold us out. When a band on an indie sells 50,000 copies of there album, it is good for everyone in the scene. It opens new distibution doors, it strengthens the label, and it puts more people in touch with the underground without compromising!. When a band reaches this point, they are probably making more money on the independent than they would on a major anyway.

When a band signs to a major label they are abandoning they who got them to where they are now. Signing to a major hurts the entire indie scene, not just the individual label they were on. The band are proclaiming that their underground base of fans that bought their records, went to their shows, and got them to where they are now, are OK but they got a better offer. This sounds alot like dumping your boyfriend or girlfriend because a better looking 1 came along.

Another issue that really gets me foaming at the mouth is the columbus-esque in which the major labels have acted as if they have created or discovered this "brand new" form of music. Needless to say punk has been around in some form for a long fuckin time. It was about 1979 when the majors declared it to be dead and it kept going without them, in spite of their best efforts to ignore it and destroy it.

Now MTV, Spin, Rolling Stone, and so forth act as if they discovered these bands playing in their garage. People without a fuckin clue about where everything came from think THEY are the underground. If you read an article in 1 of those big-time music magazines, you can see endless homage paid to bands like Minor Threat, Black Flag, Mission of Burma, Halo of Flies, Big Black and millions of other bands that they ignored when they were in existence. The impression is that the labels and MTV and magazines and so forth are rebellious, anti-establishment, revolutionaries rejecting pop culture, even though they are pop culture.

[kj]

Originally posted by youthcultureforsale

Each band from the punk scene that signs to a major label has sold us out.

Originally posted by youthcultureforsale

When a band signs to a major label they are abandoning they who got them to where they are now. Signing to a major hurts the entire indie scene, not just the individual label they were on. The band are proclaiming that their underground base of fans that bought their records, went to their shows, and got them to where they are now, are OK but they got a better offer. This sounds alot like dumping your boyfriend or girlfriend because a better looking 1 came along.

The entire article sounds like someones personal opinion, and most of it is presented without proof or statistics to back it up. It seems as though its targeted at those involved in the alternative scene, mainly Indie outfits.

If you look at hip hop (yes, its my speciality) the artists are pretty much in complete control of their music. Take eminem for one. He has been able to do and say whatever he likes, all the controversy surrounding him still hasnt damaged his sales, infact, its improved them considerably.

This has all been done through his and Dre's own label(s) (Shady / Aftermath), which is part of a major record label (Interscope).

Any opinions on that?

PS. it can also be said that independent record labels are on the increase in the hip hop industry. So thats two points to the argument

[Becca Bomb]

Independant record labels can make money too, like kj pointed out, most rap artists are on their own label or an independant rap label.

you seem to be saying that if a punk band makes money throgh a major label, then they have sold out. this is such bullshit. As long as an artist or band doesnt compromise their sound or beliefs then all they have done is become successful - is that so wrong?

Its the losers who want to stay "underground" forever and never be noticed. Anyone who knows they have talent and passion in music should want to be succesful and seen by as much people as possible!

Theres an answer to this - more people who are into music and want to improve the music industry should boycott the corporate fat cats and take over by promoting their labels and achieving success. Inependant labels which become big will be the best thing ever to happen in music.

and when (or if) this happens, will it still be selling out? i would prefer to make money from my music than stay "underground" and go unseen.

[graham enzk]

their label is funded by interscope, ie they are owned. the big label will dictate.
eminem's selling point is his image and attitude which as you said helps his sales so the label will laugh and encourage. if he goes all mellow and sings about love and flowers and the sales drop the label will stop funding or withhold funding til he is off the label.
his creative control is not absolute, if he wanted to do a single about terrorism being great and that he loved bin laden would the label go for it?
would they shite!

[graham enzk]

you'll probably find these independant rap labels are funded, distributed and marketed by majors but masquerade as gangsta owned for the street cred thing.
like a few punk labels too.
i think the article is originally by ben weasel.

[Becca Bomb]

Originally posted by smallbob
their label is funded by interscope, ie they are owned. the big label will dictate.
eminem's selling point is his image and attitude which as you said helps his sales so the label will laugh and encourage. if he goes all mellow and sings about love and flowers and the sales drop the label will stop funding or withhold funding til he is off the label.
his creative control is not absolute, if he wanted to do a single about terrorism being great and that he loved bin laden would the label go for it?
would they shite!

hence the point - *the problem is that underground labels need to become mainstream instead of the current big labels who are only in it for the money and not the music.*

[pedro]

the only problem i see with bands now who are signed to a major label is they let themselves get pushed around, take led zeppelin for example, the first band to break this trend, it used to be 90% to the label e.t.c. with 10% if that going to the band, but after peter grants use of force he threw it around and zeppelin got the majority share, but look now its back to the old fat cats getting paid off others talents. but need to say sounds guys e.t.c need to be paid good as they ae essential. moral of the story, save what u get before u blow it all.

[pretty ugly]

At the end of the day these big companies are in it to make money. Just because you want to have your music heard by as many people as possible does not mean that you have to exploit them in the process.

[binbag]

All major labels suck. D.I.Y is the only way to go. My brother in-law is looking over my shoulder as i type this "what the fuck is he a aboot (fanny)"his words

[Becca Bomb]

Originally posted by binbag
All major labels suck. D.I.Y is the only way to go. My brother in-law is looking over my shoulder as i type this "what the fuck is he a aboot (fanny)"his words

hahahaha

[binbag]

My brother-inlaw has now left the room