Miki Warren's Mural - Guantanamo

[humndislocation]

I love how some people think they have a right to have it painted over, just because it offends them.

But then a lot of people seem to have a massive sense of entitlement with regards to things that offend them, so I'm not really all that surprised.

[dexi]

Miki is not a middle class kid. She is an extremely talented young woman who was brought up to care about other people and to know that everyone is entitled to a voice. What has she done that is so upsetting to you? This is a firm step taken by someone who has guts to express what she believes in. If you knew anything about Miki you will realise that she will stand up and be counted where others just like to moan......And as for her getting in to GSoA, the world as you know it would probably end, yes, it would become a far more interesting place and i for one would champion her entry there..
As to thecomment in todays p&j regarding Miki becoming a ggod neighbour and remove her mural, Miki would make the best neighbour in Montrose. She is kind, considerate and very loving and i am extremely proud to be her mum!

[kj]

Originally Posted by corduroyboy

I just don't understand why-oh-why. It is on a technical level not very well done, and on a conceptual level almost entirely taken from Banksy's thing. At least the one thing in Banksy's favour is that he doesn't get permission...

Also whether or not I went to, or currently go to art college is irrelevant. I don't need to be qualified to say what I like or dislike, just as everyone else is entitled to their opinion on this.

Also.. I like Alan and KJ: my beef's with Banksy!

<3 you guyz xxx

Banksy isn't original either. He had a major influence too but i forget the dudes name, it's a foreign type sounding name... excuse my ignorance.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by dexi

Miki is not a middle class kid. She is an extremely talented young woman who was brought up to care about other people and to know that everyone is entitled to a voice. What has she done that is so upsetting to you? This is a firm step taken by someone who has guts to express what she believes in. If you knew anything about Miki you will realise that she will stand up and be counted where others just like to moan......And as for her getting in to GSoA, the world as you know it would probably end, yes, it would become a far more interesting place and i for one would champion her entry there..
As to thecomment in todays p&j regarding Miki becoming a ggod neighbour and remove her mural, Miki would make the best neighbour in Montrose. She is kind, considerate and very loving and i am extremely proud to be her mum!

Hi I think only one person said she should remove the mural. There used to be some graffiti boards on this site. Mentioning GSOA was more a slate at the school rather than Miki from rather jaded ex-students. Like I say it looks better than the pile of rubble

[Iomega]

I believe I am the best neighbour in the Mo'

[corduroyboy]

I already said I don't want it painted over, and I was just saying that personally this work does nothing for me. All art is subjective and doing anything creative opens yourself up to people voicing their opinion on a piece, some of which will be criticism, indeed much harsher criticism than me just saying "It doesn't do anything for me", and it's something that anyone entering a creative industry has to get used to, especially when something ends up getting a relatively-high local profile as this did. This is just an opinion on a forum from no one important, so it's hardly a criticism, I'm not qualified to lecture her or say she should do this or that if she wants to get good grades or anything like that, but anyone is more than qualified to have an opinion.

I in no way insinuated that she's a bad person or a terrible neighbour, but I will say: Toadfish roolz.

[cowfreak]

As far as being original goes, there would be precious little Art if originality was a criteria... and as for 'copying' Banksy's stuff, "I thought I was plagiarist 'til I discovered intertextuality" is a good enuff defence for me. Itz got to be a good thing to have Art in public spaces, the more political the better, and considerin that Disney was a Nazi I think the mural hits it right on the button...

[kizzy1601]

Hey there! I am in fact from Montrose originally although I am now living in Edinburgh! I couldnt believe it when I heard on the news last night thats something had caused such a sturr! The mural is infact round the corner from my fathers house and I have asked them to take some photos before it is removed.

I do not agree with the fact that such a brilliant piece of expressive art should be covered up! Having used one of my favourite artists as her inspiration. I think the only reason so many people are objecting to her art is because Montrose never really experiencing such visual acts of belief i.e. we dont really have much graffiti, murals, marches and protests. Mainly it is the older generations who are complaining, I think that many of the younger members of the community are quite compelled by her art work! Anyway, hopefully I shall get these pictures emailed to me soon and I can post them on here for you, better clost up ones!

Kxxx

[Davhead]

I also live in Montrose. But more than that, I used to be Miki's uncle (through marriage). Not that that gives me any more idea about this subject that anyone else.

I would like to say that you need to take Montrose into context before making any judgement about this mural. A sleepy little place where the council do it's best to keep modern life and truth out of sight. There are currently no contemporary art on show in Montrose (although there are plans to open a gallery space in an old church, the Mitchell Centre). The local papers, the Review and the Courier, print total crap about non political and political career stroking subject. every week we see local org's like round table, rotary and other well established social do gooders (political career strokers) handing tokens to "worth while charities".

This social bubbling can be seen in most small towns, I know. But, it is Montrose and the mural we are discussing here.

Miki, in my opinion, has done an excellent job of stirring up a lot of interest. If you look at the Montrose Today: News, Sport, Jobs, Property, Cars, Entertainments & More website, you will see comments from as far as Switzerland about this piece of art. Unfortunately, all the interest is not on the subject matter, but instead on the freedom of expression. I am sure this was not really her intention.

On the subject it's self. A war contrived by the US for profit. A war agreed by Iraq for political stability in the world market. 2 country take overs (afghan and Iraq) both to increase profit and control 2 of the world most trafficked recourses (Opium and Oil). So, the bit I do not get is this. Why do we need Guantanamo bay when the whole thing has already been agreed on a higher level? Is it like the other wars? "Let’s kill a few of the working classes off while we make some money!" "Let’s put on a good show" "let make it look as real as possible"

These are great distractions away from what is really happening. It is just another corporate take over guys. And we are all arguing over where the cornflakes go hahahaha .. WAKEN UP

[kj]

Welcome to the site to you both, and thanks for contributing to the discussion on the way that you have

It's amazing that in places like Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen you can't walk a few yards without seeing some sort of expressive art and i'm not talking about mindless graffiti. Today I spotted two Banksy pieces on Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow, totally untouched most probably due to the respect those pieces get. Stencilling has been around for a long time and it's the perfect way to get your message across with in the minimum amount of time.

On the other hand every week i'll see offensive graffiti such as Swastikas and racist language etc etc yet those are allowed to stay untouched by the council. In my opinions residents and their councils need to get their priorities straight. If councils like that of Montrose continue to try and keep their residents in bubble wrap then they are just asking for trouble. When something foreign like this happens in a small town then things do get stirred but really, the residents of Montrose who are against this mural need to wake up and see what's outside of Montrose.

[ArchFlameTera]

how that offends someone is beyond me. well, actually no, OAPs complain about things like this all the time.

[: : Scott : :]

Originally Posted by humndislocation

I love how some people think they have a right to have it painted over, just because it offends them.

They perhaps don't have the right to have it painted over, but surely they have precisely as much right to paint over it as Miki had to initially paint it? Not that I'm suggesting I would paint over it or otherwise have it painted over, because I truly don't care.

Just musing about the implications of your comment. After all, it exists because something (Guantanamo Bay) offended someones (Miki's) sensibilities.

[corduroyboy]

Originally Posted by kj

If councils like that of Montrose continue to try and keep their residents in bubble wrap

But what? They aren't really. Not any more than Ofcom pulling a TV show that has offended a certain (relatively low) amount of the population. It's censorship, yes, but it's hardly a nanny state or anything because you do initially get to broadcast your show, paint your mural, and you do reach your audience and aren't prevented from doing so. However, like Ofcom, the council are probably obligated to step in when a certain amount of their townspeople have voiced their objections. I understand the Ofcom thing less to be honest, you can choose to just not watch something that offends you. However, if someone painted something that offended you or you just plain didn't like cosmetically across from your house or in your neighbourhood, you can't really turn that off.

I think Dundee City Council or any council for that matter would act similarly if enough of their citizens complained, and we HAVE a contemporary art centre, obviously making us the cosmopolitan capital of the north east.

Our local rag isn't exactly a great source of current affairs and international news, Montrose is hardly an impenetrable fortress where no outside news gets in.

I amn't saying it SHOULD be painted over, personally I don't mind it staying: like Scott I don't care one way or the other, however no one should have to live beside something they object to, politically, aesthetically, or for any reason. Plus, as I've said, the target audience has been reached, you were allowed to do it in the first place, everyone who liked it has been able to view it, take photographs, whatever..